Re: [EM] Idea Proposal: Listening Democracy

2010-04-21 Thread Fred Gohlke
Good Morning, Duane Johnson I plan to study your proposal but have not had time to do so. I expect to have questions for you and will post them as soon as I've had time to think about what you've written. That may not be for a week or so. Fred Gohlke Election-Methods mailing list -

Re: [EM] Idea Proposal: Listening Democracy

2010-04-21 Thread Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
At 04:42 PM 4/19/2010, Duane Johnson wrote: Hi Everyone, I am new to this forum, thanks to James Green-Armytage who sent me the address. I am a software engineer in Chicago who also happens to be interested in voting methods. I'd like to propose a voting method that may be of interest

Re: [EM] Idea Proposal: Listening Democracy

2010-04-21 Thread Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
At 07:55 AM 4/20/2010, Raph Frank wrote: Btw, you should look into the delegable proxy system. This is also designed to allow effective communication without overloading the voters. Asset Voting was invented when Dodgson realized that most voters were people busy with their lives. They were

Re: [EM] Classifying 3-cand scenarios. LNHarm methods again.

2010-04-21 Thread Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
At 01:30 AM 4/20/2010, Dave Ketchum wrote: On Apr 19, 2010, at 11:48 AM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote: Or other advanced method. What is often overlooked in the discussion of voting methods, due to the emphasis on deterministic methods that always find a winner with one ballot, is that runoff

Re: [EM] Idea Proposal: Listening Democracy

2010-04-21 Thread Andrew Myers
On 7/22/64 2:59 PM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote: However, I strongly urge people who attempt to analyze the situation and to propose reforms to: 1. Keep it simple. An extraordinarily powerful system for fully proportional representation consisting of a seemingly-simple tweak on Single

Re: [EM] Idea Proposal: Listening Democracy

2010-04-21 Thread Jameson Quinn
2010/4/21 Andrew Myers an...@cs.cornell.edu On 7/22/64 2:59 PM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote: However, I strongly urge people who attempt to analyze the situation and to propose reforms to: 1. Keep it simple. An extraordinarily powerful system for fully proportional representation consisting

[EM] Classifying 3-cand scenarios. LNHarm methods again.

2010-04-21 Thread Chris Benham
Dave Ketchum wrote 17 April 2010: First, quoting Wikipedia: A Condorcet method is any single-winner election method that meets the Condorcet criterion, that is, which always selects the Condorcet winner, the candidate who would beat each of the other candidates in a run-off election, if

Re: [EM] Classifying 3-cand scenarios. LNHarm methods again.

2010-04-21 Thread Dave Ketchum
Somehow this thread forgot its primary address - sorry. On Apr 21, 2010, at 11:04 AM, robert bristow-johnson wrote: Dave, i think you meant to respond to the EM list, not? i think you and i are on the same side, i just would not expect adopting Preferential Voting (be it Condorcet or IRV or

Re: [EM] Classifying 3-cand scenarios. LNHarm methods again.

2010-04-21 Thread Juho
The same logic applies also to the Condorcet criterion. We all probably agree on what terms Condorcet criterion, Condorcet method, Condorcet-complying method are intended to refer to. Term Condorcet might refer to any of these or maybe to Marquis de Condorcet (in the EM framework). If one

Re: [EM] Idea Proposal Listening Democracy

2010-04-21 Thread fsimmons
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Re: [EM] Idea Proposal: Listening Democracy

2010-04-21 Thread Terry Bouricius
Jameson, Abd has made much of a proposal of Charles Dodgson tweaking STV by allowing candidates to assign exhausted ballots...but that is NOT the system that Dodgson's name is normally attached to. His name is attached to a Condorcet method (but not knowing of Condorcet's prior invention)

Re: [EM] Classifying 3-cand scenarios. LNHarm methods again.

2010-04-21 Thread Dave Ketchum
On Apr 21, 2010, at 1:06 PM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote: At 01:30 AM 4/20/2010, Dave Ketchum wrote: On Apr 19, 2010, at 11:48 AM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote: Or other advanced method. What is often overlooked in the discussion of voting methods, due to the emphasis on deterministic methods that

[EM] MinMax(AWP) and Participation

2010-04-21 Thread fsimmons
I don't know if Juho is still cheering for MinMax as a public proposal. I used to be against it because of its clone dependence, but now that I realize that measuring defeat strength by AWP (Approval Weighted Pairwise) solves that problem, I'm starting to warm up more to the idea. MinMax

Re: [EM] MinMax(AWP) and Participation

2010-04-21 Thread Juho
I still include minmax(margins) in the set of good Condorcet methods, also for practical elections. AWP style defeat strength measuring is a very interesting addition to the Condorcet family. It may be a bit tedious to the voters but in principle very interesting as said. Also variants of

Re: [EM] Idea Proposal: Listening Democracy

2010-04-21 Thread Duane Johnson
This sounds quite interesting, Abd ul-Rahman. Where can I learn about your FA/DP idea? Your discussion here is helpful, but I feel like I am missing out the important prerequisite pieces in order to make sense of it. (I know about delegable proxy, but haven't heard about FA/DP

Re: [EM] Idea Proposal: Listening Democracy

2010-04-21 Thread Duane Johnson
There is no rush, of course. I look forward to hearing your thoughts. Thanks, Duane Johnson On Apr 21, 2010, at 8:13 AM, Fred Gohlke wrote: Good Morning, Duane Johnson I plan to study your proposal but have not had time to do so. I expect to have questions for you and will post them as

Re: [EM] Idea Proposal: Listening Democracy

2010-04-21 Thread Duane Johnson
On Apr 20, 2010, at 6:55 AM, Raph Frank wrote: On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 9:42 PM, Duane Johnson duane.john...@gmail.com wrote: The voting process would go like this: 1. (By some process outside the scope of this proposal), it is determined that an issue needs to be voted on This could

Re: [EM] Idea Proposal: Listening Democracy

2010-04-21 Thread Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
At 05:23 PM 4/21/2010, Terry Bouricius wrote: Abd has made much of a proposal of Charles Dodgson tweaking STV by allowing candidates to assign exhausted ballots...but that is NOT the system that Dodgson's name is normally attached to. His name is attached to a Condorcet method (but not knowing

Re: [EM] Classifying 3-cand scenarios. LNHarm methods again.

2010-04-21 Thread robert bristow-johnson
On Apr 21, 2010, at 3:17 PM, Dave Ketchum wrote: Somehow this thread forgot its primary address - sorry. On Apr 21, 2010, at 11:04 AM, robert bristow-johnson wrote: Dave, i think you meant to respond to the EM list, not? i think you and i are on the same side, i just would not expect