Re: [EM] Proportional election method needed for the Czech Green party - Council elections

2010/4/26 Juho > > Draft of a method: > > - collect ranked votes > - use Condorcet to determine P (Condorcet tends to elect a compromise > candidate that all voters find reasonably good) > - use STV (using the same ballots) to elect the group of P and VPs (some > special rules are needed to guara

Re: [EM] Proportional election method needed for the Czech Green party - Council elections

On 7/22/64 2:59 PM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote: Asset doesn't resemble what the Soviets had in the least There is no "party" control, parties become unnecessary with Asset. Abd, The phrase "parties become unnecessary" is redolent of utopian idealism. Parties will exist. Or do you think some

Re: [EM] Proportional election method needed for the Czech Green party - Council elections

On Apr 26, 2010, at 5:54 PM, Juho wrote: > On Apr 27, 2010, at 3:22 AM, Jonathan Lundell wrote: > >> On Apr 26, 2010, at 5:18 PM, Juho wrote: >> >>> On Apr 27, 2010, at 3:01 AM, Jonathan Lundell wrote: >>> On Apr 26, 2010, at 4:45 PM, Juho wrote: > Draft of a method: > >

Re: [EM] Proportional election method needed for the Czech Green party - Council elections

At 03:50 PM 4/26/2010, Andrew Myers wrote: I'll be surprised if a version of asset voting is appealing to these folks. To me, asset voting has always sounded very similar to Soviet "democracy". This is downright weird. A multistage process with a hierarchy of voters creates rich opportunit

Re: [EM] Proportional election method needed for the Czech Green party - Council elections

At 03:39 PM 4/26/2010, Peter Zbornik wrote: The best PR system in terms of producing decent factional representation is STV-PR, and others can explain how to do it. There are programs that exist. But with 400 ballots, counting ballots is trivial. Has it occurred to you to wonder why, with 2000

Re: [EM] Proportional election method needed for the Czech Green party - Council elections

On Apr 27, 2010, at 3:22 AM, Jonathan Lundell wrote: On Apr 26, 2010, at 5:18 PM, Juho wrote: On Apr 27, 2010, at 3:01 AM, Jonathan Lundell wrote: On Apr 26, 2010, at 4:45 PM, Juho wrote: Draft of a method: - collect ranked votes - use Condorcet to determine P (Condorcet tends to elect a

Re: [EM] Participation

Hi Abd, --- En date de : Dim 25.4.10, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a écrit : > > I don't understand your terminology. Does "maximize > utility" mean pick > > the best winner every time, or does it just mean the > method that comes > > closest to doing this on average? > > Fair enough, I'll need to expre

Re: [EM] Proportional election method needed for the Czech Green party - Council elections

On Apr 26, 2010, at 5:18 PM, Juho wrote: > On Apr 27, 2010, at 3:01 AM, Jonathan Lundell wrote: > >> On Apr 26, 2010, at 4:45 PM, Juho wrote: >> >>> Draft of a method: >>> >>> - collect ranked votes >>> - use Condorcet to determine P (Condorcet tends to elect a compromise >>> candidate that al

Re: [EM] Proportional election method needed for the Czech Green party - Council elections

On Apr 27, 2010, at 3:01 AM, Jonathan Lundell wrote: On Apr 26, 2010, at 4:45 PM, Juho wrote: Draft of a method: - collect ranked votes - use Condorcet to determine P (Condorcet tends to elect a compromise candidate that all voters find reasonably good) - use STV (using the same ballots) to

Re: [EM] Proportional election method needed for the Czech Green party - Council elections

One more thing. If needed, the method could allow nominating only some subset of all the candidates as candidates for the P and VP positions. Juho On Apr 27, 2010, at 2:45 AM, Juho wrote: I think there are good and well tested single-winner and proportional multi-winner methods that the C

Re: [EM] Proportional election method needed for the Czech Green party - Council elections

On Apr 26, 2010, at 4:45 PM, Juho wrote: > Draft of a method: > > - collect ranked votes > - use Condorcet to determine P (Condorcet tends to elect a compromise > candidate that all voters find reasonably good) > - use STV (using the same ballots) to elect the group of P and VPs (some > special

Re: [EM] Proportional election method needed for the Czech Green party - Council elections

At 02:50 PM 4/26/2010, Peter Zbornik wrote: Hi Jameson, answers in the text. On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 6:58 PM, Jameson Quinn <jameson.qu...@gmail.com> wrote: Two questions, before I respond more fully: 1. 2010/4/25 Peter Zbornik <pzb

Re: [EM] Proportional election method needed for the Czech Green party - Council elections

I think there are good and well tested single-winner and proportional multi-winner methods that the Czech Green party could use (like Condorcet methods and STV). For the election of president (P) and vice- presidents (VP) there maybe are no good existing solutions (see requirements below), s

Re: [EM] Proportional election method needed for the Czech Green party - Council elections

On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 7:50 PM, Peter Zbornik wrote: > Yes that is indeed the problem - it allows for bribery and blackmailing. > The secret ballot was introduced together with the equal voting right in > many states of Europe, including the Czech Republic. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_b

Re: [EM] Proportional election method needed for the Czech Green party - Council elections

On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 9:24 PM, Peter Zbornik wrote: > DELIVERABLES FOR IMPLEMENTATION: > In the end, if proportional elections are to make their way into the > party statutesm, then I have to deliver the following: > 1. a proposal of a text to the statutes, describing the election rules > and pr

Re: [EM] Proportional election method needed for the Czech Green party - Council elections

On 7/22/64 2:59 PM, Peter Zbornik wrote: On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 4:20 PM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax mailto:a...@lomaxdesign.com>> wrote: At 04:24 PM 4/25/2010, Peter Zbornik wrote: Hi, I am a member of the Czech Green party, and we are giving our statutes an ove

Re: [EM] Proportional election method needed for the Czech Green party - Council elections

Hi Jameson, answers in the text. On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 6:58 PM, Jameson Quinn wrote: > Two questions, before I respond more fully: > > 1. > > 2010/4/25 Peter Zbornik > > (v) asset voting is excluded due to lack of political support >> > > Can you clarify? Is the problem with vote secrecy of t

Re: [EM] Proportional election method needed for the Czech Green party

Oh Yes. I'm sorry. That's right. So only the approval ballot PR methods I suggested apply then, unless there are factions within the party so that the party list system could be used. Sounds like the approval PR methods would be best. STV would be good for them if they want to elect extremists.

Re: [EM] Proportional election method needed for the Czech Green party - Council elections

Peter Zbornik wrote: Hi Kristoffer, The election methods you proposed are a great help. Just one clarification in order to avoid misunderstandings: The president and the vice presidents are all members of the board, i.e. you have X board members out of which one is the president, vice preside

Re: [EM] Proportional election method needed for the Czech Green party

At 12:06 PM 4/26/2010, Kathy Dopp wrote: Peter, I cannot answer all your questions in detail, even if I had the time, but this is what I've learned thus far re. proportional multi-winner methods. Kathy, I don't think you have realized the context. These are elections within a political party,

Re: [EM] Participation

At 08:07 AM 4/26/2010, Kristofer Munsterhjelm wrote: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote: At 11:57 PM 4/24/2010, Kevin Venzke wrote: Hi Abd, --- En date de : Sam 24.4.10, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a écrit : > This is what is common with the > use of voting systems criteria to study methods. Scenarios > are

Re: [EM] Proportional election method needed for the Czech Green party - Council elections

Two questions, before I respond more fully: 1. 2010/4/25 Peter Zbornik > (v) asset voting is excluded due to lack of political support > Can you clarify? Is the problem with vote secrecy of the "lower" delegates, and/or with the "back room" process among the "higher" delegates (that is, the ca

Re: [EM] Proportional election method needed for the Czech Green party - Council elections

At 04:24 PM 4/25/2010, Peter Zbornik wrote: Hi, I am a member of the Czech Green party, and we are giving our statutes an overhaul. We are a small parliamentary party with only some 2000 members. Lately we have had quite some problems infighting due to the winner-takes-it-all election methods us

Re: [EM] Proportional election method needed for the Czech Green party

Peter, I cannot answer all your questions in detail, even if I had the time, but this is what I've learned thus far re. proportional multi-winner methods. 1. Stay as far as possible away from methods like STV that are not precinct-summable and do not treat all voters' votes equally. (STV degenerat

Re: [EM] Proportional election method needed for the Czech Green party - Council elections

On Apr 25, 2010, at 11:24 PM, Peter Zbornik wrote: Hi, I am a member of the Czech Green party, and we are giving our statutes an overhaul. We are a small parliamentary party with only some 2000 members. Lately we have had quite some problems infighting due to the winner-takes-it-all election me

Re: [EM] Participation

Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote: At 11:57 PM 4/24/2010, Kevin Venzke wrote: Hi Abd, --- En date de : Sam 24.4.10, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a écrit : > This is what is common with the > use of voting systems criteria to study methods. Scenarios > are created, sometimes cleverly, to cause a failure of a

Re: [EM] Proportional election method needed for the Czech Green party - Council elections

Peter Zbornik wrote: Hi, I am a member of the Czech Green party, and we are giving our statutes an overhaul. We are a small parliamentary party with only some 2000 members. Lately we have had quite some problems infighting due to the winner-takes-it-all election methods used within the party. I