Re: [EM] Conceiving a Democratic Electoral Process

2012-07-01 Thread Fred Gohlke
Mike Ossipoff: re: ...including ones whose proposals and procedures are democratic. (posted in response to: My comment was not referring to democracies, it was referring to parties) Parties are not democratic, either in relation to the entire electorate or in relation to their own

Re: [EM] Conceiving a Democratic Electoral Process

2012-07-01 Thread Michael Ossipoff
Fred: On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 9:38 AM, Fred Gohlke fredgoh...@verizon.net wrote: You said: Mike Ossipoff: re: ...including ones whose proposals and procedures are democratic. (posted in response to: My comment was not referring to democracies, it was referring to parties)

[EM] Census re-districting instead of PR for allocating seats to districts.

2012-07-01 Thread C.Benham
I haven't been following this discussion closely, but I've long thought that the best way of allocating seats to multi-member districts is to just say that subject to every district having at least one seat we do the allocation after the votes have been cast, based on the numbers of people who

Re: [EM] Census re-districting instead of PR for allocating seats to districts.

2012-07-01 Thread Juho Laatu
I'd be happy to try that somewhere. Only those votes count that are cast. This approach could be seen as less fair than the traditional population based allocation, since those people that didn't vote in some district will not be represented at all. In allocation between parties also non-voters

Re: [EM] Census re-districting instead of PR for allocating seats to districts.

2012-07-01 Thread Michael Ossipoff
On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 3:32 PM, C.Benham cbenha...@yahoo.com.au wrote: I haven't been following this discussion closely, but I've long thought that the best way of allocating seats to multi-member districts is to just say that subject to every district having at least one seat we do the

[EM] Sainte-Lague vs d'Hondt for party list PR

2012-07-01 Thread Michael Ossipoff
I always advocatred SL (Sainte-Lague) over dH (d'Hondt) for party list PR, because, if you're using PR it's because you want proportionality, and if you want proportionality, then you want SL. Then, more recently, I said that, since I don't think that we need PR anyway (though I have nothing

Re: [EM] Census re-districting instead of PR for allocating seats to districts.

2012-07-01 Thread Juho Laatu
On 2.7.2012, at 1.05, Michael Ossipoff wrote: There's no reason why, STV, voting for and electing candidates, couldn't be used in each multimember district, with the parties afterwards topped-up according to a national at-large list-PR allocation. STV ballots may rank candidates of multiple

Re: [EM] Sainte-Lague vs d'Hondt for party list PR

2012-07-01 Thread Juho Laatu
On 2.7.2012, at 1.51, Michael Ossipoff wrote: I always advocatred SL (Sainte-Lague) over dH (d'Hondt) for party list PR, because, if you're using PR it's because you want proportionality, and if you want proportionality, then you want SL. Then, more recently, I said that, since I don't

Re: [EM] Sainte-Lague vs d'Hondt for party list PR

2012-07-01 Thread Michael Ossipoff
On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 7:34 PM, Juho Laatu juho4...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: On 2.7.2012, at 1.51, Michael Ossipoff wrote: I always advocatred SL (Sainte-Lague) over dH (d'Hondt) for party list PR, because, if you're using PR it's because you want proportionality, and if you want

Re: [EM] Census re-districting instead of PR for allocating seats to districts.

2012-07-01 Thread Michael Ossipoff
Quoting me: On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 6:59 PM, Juho Laatu juho4...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: On 2.7.2012, at 1.05, Michael Ossipoff wrote: There's no reason why, STV, voting for and electing candidates, couldn't be used in each multimember district, with the parties afterwards topped-up according to