Re: [EM] [CES #4429] Looking at Condorcet

2012-02-03 Thread Andy Jennings
On Fri, Feb 3, 2012 at 2:05 PM, Jameson Quinn wrote: > > How would you vote with SODA? > I would usually end up delegating to my favorite. I'd look at their ranking and if it was pretty good I'd delegate. Otherwise, I'd probably come up with my own ranking (perhaps based on theirs) and then cho

Re: [EM] [CES #4429] Looking at Condorcet

2012-02-03 Thread Dave Ketchum
Ranking more than ten candidates? Condorcet does NOT require such. However, if too many are running, you need to look for sanity: . You may have preferences among those most likely to win - pick those you see as the best few of these. . Also pick among the few you would prefer, regard

Re: [EM] [CES #4429] Looking at Condorcet

2012-02-03 Thread Kristofer Munsterhjelm
On 02/03/2012 08:45 PM, Andy Jennings wrote: - If someone built a computer program that presented me pairs of candidates at a time as Kristofer suggested, that would make it somewhat easier. I think I would still prefer to divide them into tiers first, but if I divided them into tiers first, I

Re: [EM] [CES #4429] Looking at Condorcet

2012-02-03 Thread Juho Laatu
On 3.2.2012, at 21.45, Andy Jennings wrote: > - If someone built a computer program that presented me pairs of candidates > at a time as Kristofer suggested, that would make it somewhat easier. I > think I would still prefer to divide them into tiers first, but if I divided > them into tiers f

Re: [EM] [CES #4429] Looking at Condorcet

2012-02-03 Thread Jameson Quinn
It sounds to me as if, of all the methods you mentioned, you would prefer MJ. How would you vote with SODA? (go ahead and think of your answer before you read mine) I think I'd almost always just delegate to my favorite with SODA. If I don't like my favorite's delegation order, that would make m

Re: [EM] [CES #4429] Looking at Condorcet

2012-02-03 Thread Andy Jennings
On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 10:09 PM, Richard Fobes wrote: > On 2/2/2012 11:07 AM, Kristofer Munsterhjelm wrote: > >> On 02/02/2012 05:28 AM, Jameson Quinn wrote: >> >> I honestly think that honest rating is easier than honest ranking. >>> ... >>> >> > As a contrast, to me, ranking is easier than ra

Re: [EM] [CES #4429] Looking at Condorcet

2012-02-03 Thread Juho Laatu
On 3.2.2012, at 0.21, Jameson Quinn wrote: > 2012/2/2 Juho Laatu > Attempt 1: It is difficult to write something like "a>b>c" on the ballot > paper, or to push buttons of the voting machine so that all the candidates > will be in the correct order. > > Answer 1: Don't use such procedures. If

Re: [EM] [CES #4429] Looking at Condorcet

2012-02-02 Thread Richard Fobes
On 2/2/2012 11:07 AM, Kristofer Munsterhjelm wrote: On 02/02/2012 05:28 AM, Jameson Quinn wrote: I honestly think that honest rating is easier than honest ranking. ... As a contrast, to me, ranking is easier than rating. ... I too find ranking easier than rating. This seems to be a patter

Re: [EM] [CES #4429] Looking at Condorcet

2012-02-02 Thread Jameson Quinn
2012/2/2 Juho Laatu > On 2.2.2012, at 21.07, Kristofer Munsterhjelm wrote: > > > On 02/02/2012 05:28 AM, Jameson Quinn wrote: > > > >> I honestly think that honest rating is easier than honest ranking. > >> (How's that for honesty per square word?) MJ is the only system which > >> allows honest r

Re: [EM] [CES #4429] Looking at Condorcet

2012-02-02 Thread Juho Laatu
On 2.2.2012, at 21.07, Kristofer Munsterhjelm wrote: > On 02/02/2012 05:28 AM, Jameson Quinn wrote: > >> I honestly think that honest rating is easier than honest ranking. >> (How's that for honesty per square word?) MJ is the only system which >> allows honest rating to be full-strength in pract

Re: [EM] [CES #4429] Looking at Condorcet

2012-02-02 Thread robert bristow-johnson
On 2/2/12 2:07 PM, Kristofer Munsterhjelm wrote: On 02/02/2012 05:28 AM, Jameson Quinn wrote: I honestly think that honest rating is easier than honest ranking. (How's that for honesty per square word?) MJ is the only system which allows honest rating to be full-strength in practice; and SODA i

Re: [EM] [CES #4429] Looking at Condorcet

2012-02-02 Thread Kristofer Munsterhjelm
On 02/02/2012 05:28 AM, Jameson Quinn wrote: I honestly think that honest rating is easier than honest ranking. (How's that for honesty per square word?) MJ is the only system which allows honest rating to be full-strength in practice; and SODA is the only good system which allows anything easie

Re: [EM] [CES #4429] Looking at Condorcet

2012-02-02 Thread Raph Frank
On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 3:22 AM, Dave Ketchum wrote: > Voter can vote as in: > .     FPTP, ranking the single candidate liked best, and treating all others > as equally liked less or disliked. > .     Approval, ranking those equally liked best, and treating all others as > equally liked less or dis

Re: [EM] [CES #4429] Looking at Condorcet

2012-02-02 Thread Jameson Quinn
I'm going to continue to take a devil's advocate anti-Condorcet position here. Of course I still believe that Condorcet systems are good overall, and much much better than plurality or IRV. But I honestly think that MJ and SODA are better. 2012/2/1 robert bristow-johnson > On 2/1/12 11:28 PM, Ja

Re: [EM] [CES #4429] Looking at Condorcet

2012-02-01 Thread Juho Laatu
On 2.2.2012, at 6.28, Jameson Quinn wrote: > Dave gives good reasons for Condorcet. I'd like to present the other side. > > Condorcet systems have many advantages. So what's wrong with Condorcet? > > It comes in a bewildering array of forms, thus reducing the unity of its > supporters. But that

Re: [EM] [CES #4429] Looking at Condorcet

2012-02-01 Thread robert bristow-johnson
On 2/1/12 11:28 PM, Jameson Quinn wrote: Dave gives good reasons for Condorcet. I'd like to present the other side. Condorcet systems have many advantages. So what's wrong with Condorcet? It comes in a bewildering array of forms, thus reducing the unity of its supporters. But that's not the r

Re: [EM] [CES #4429] Looking at Condorcet

2012-02-01 Thread Jameson Quinn
Dave gives good reasons for Condorcet. I'd like to present the other side. Condorcet systems have many advantages. So what's wrong with Condorcet? It comes in a bewildering array of forms, thus reducing the unity of its supporters. But that's not the real problem. It admits both betrayal and bur