Re: [EM] Andrew: Sincere methodsd

2005-03-25 Thread Jobst Heitzig
Dear Mike! Although I don't believe in measurable individual utilities in the first place, here's some thoughts on the even more questionable notion of social utility: In replying to Andrew, you stated a seemingly trivial truth: That's CR. If voters have no wish to maximize their own utility

[EM] Is an approval cutoff option necessary?

2005-03-25 Thread Monkey Puzzle
I'm starting to think that an approval cutoff option may be too complicated for a public DMC proposal. It now seems to me that a graded ballot with C as the lowest passing grade is fairly intuitive and with 8 approved ranks leaves sufficient room for voter expression. But mainly, 16 ranks (0 --

Re: [EM] Sincere methods

2005-03-25 Thread Juho Laatu
Hello Gervase, On Mar 24, 2005, at 03:00, Gervase Lam wrote: Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 09:15:52 +0200 From: Juho Laatu Subject: [EM] Sincere methods I already gave some support to seeing MinMax (margins) (least additional votes) as one potential sincere method (criticism received too). If you want

Re: [EM]Definite Majority Choice, AWP, AM

2005-03-25 Thread Juho Laatu
Hello Chris, I have one generic comment on evaluation of different voting methods. Examples that include both sincere votes and altered votes nicely demonstrate the possibilities of strategic voting, but when the voting method gets a pile of ballots to be counted, no knowledge of which votes

[EM] Re: Quartiles for CR

2005-03-25 Thread Forest Simmons
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 09:25:46 +0100 From: Jobst Heitzig [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [EM] Andrew: Sincere methodsd ... The median is a simpler, more accurate, and more robust measure of social utility than the sum! It has the additional advantage that we need not assume that utilities possess

[EM] median rating / lower quartile

2005-03-25 Thread James Green-Armytage
So I suggest to measure social utility by the LOWER QUARTILE of the individual utilities (= that utility value where one quarter of the voters is below and three quarters of the voters are above). Perhaps this will even make CR a somewhat more strategy-resistant method since we use a much more

Re: [EM] median rating / lower quartile

2005-03-25 Thread Fan de Condorcet
James, You wrote: Given sincere votes, this may be interesting, but if votes are not necessarily sincere, it would be quite possible for all candidates to receive a social utility of 0. That is, the lower quartile feature makes the method into a kind of 3/4 supermajority method. However, scoring

Re: [EM] median rating / lower quartile

2005-03-25 Thread Daniel Bishop
Fan de Condorcet wrote: James, You wrote: Given sincere votes, this may be interesting, but if votes are not necessarily sincere, it would be quite possible for all candidates to receive a social utility of 0. That is, the lower quartile feature makes the method into a kind of 3/4 supermajority

[EM] Social utility is more important than median utility

2005-03-25 Thread MIKE OSSIPOFF
Jobst-- You wrote: The median is a simpler, more accurate, and more robust measure of social utility than the sum! I reply: Probably so. You continued: It has the additional advantage that we need not assume that utilities possess an additive scale. True, but there's a good reason for judging a

[EM] How would Median CR work?

2005-03-25 Thread MIKE OSSIPOFF
How would Median CR work? What would be the exact wording of its balloting and count rules? And, for me more important, would it keep CR's compliance with FBC and WDSC? ...and would it keep CR's social optimization advantage, that if people vote to maximize their utility expectation, then, with

[EM] Early discussion of wv on EM

2005-03-25 Thread MIKE OSSIPOFF
Yes, judging by the archives, Rob started EM in February '96. But a posting from Steve in EM's 1st month, February '96, shows that the Single-Winner Committee had been operating for some time before that. I include, in this posting, below, a copy of a May '96 posting of mine to EM. But you

[EM] 1996 March 24 advocacy of wv

2005-03-25 Thread MIKE OSSIPOFF
The way to choose a single-winner method is on the basis of what standards you want, what you want from a single-winner method. Since you're into electoral reform, I needn't tell you what the lesser-of- 2-evils problem is, and you don't need me to tell you that the lesser-of-2- evils problem

[EM] Continuation of that 1996 March 24 posting to EM, advocating wv

2005-03-25 Thread MIKE OSSIPOFF
Let me demonstrate this with an example. A much more reasonable un-contrived example than the ones in the anti-Condorcet paper: Voters' sincere preferences: 40%: Dole, Clinton, Nader 25%: Clinton 35%: Nader, Clinton, Dole [The Clinton voters have no 2nd choice listed for simplicity, because it