Re: [Elementary-dev-community] "I'm Quitting": we both overreacted

Andre, I agree with you, and I think elementary needs to continue improving things in this area. I would, however, like to dispel a myth you set forth in your email: Ubuntu has many secrets and dark-room-decisions, trust me. That doesn't mean that we should at all, just pointing out the error. All

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] "I'm Quitting": we both overreacted

+1 On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 12:47 PM, Andre Luis dos Santos < andre_luis...@hotmail.com> wrote: > IMHO, Sergey tried to kill a rabbit (no pun intented) and shot other. (I > think this only make sense in Portuguese...) When we started discussing the > web page mockup we stumbled upon a more importa

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] "I'm Quitting": we both overreacted

IMHO, Sergey tried to kill a rabbit (no pun intented) and shot other. (I think this only make sense in Portuguese...) When we started discussing the web page mockup we stumbled upon a more important issue: the decision-make process of elementary. I don't think is doable everybody voting things

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] "I'm Quitting": we both overreacted

Good, thanks for the info. This is offtopic here, sorry for responding here and with not completely verified info. Won't happen again. Let's move the discussion to the google doc. -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpa

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] "I'm Quitting": we both overreacted

Sorry but before spreading some rumors that aren't ture red this guys own website: Ok. I need all of your input on this. > At the current rate of donation subscription > failures and > cancellations (though cancellations haven’t been that high… only accounting > for a

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] "I'm Quitting": we both overreacted

2012/7/4 xapantu : > Please don't hope you'll get 10,000$ a month with eOS. If we get enough to > pay 10 travel to our community by year, it'll be very good. Well, we can > hope we'll be able to drink something too if we meet. NOBODY will be paid > before several years, forget that. $10,000 a mont

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] "I'm Quitting": we both overreacted

Hi all, Let's stop about that: the decision making process isn't satifactory, we all agree on that. I agree with Sergey about most of the things he says, and I would be happy we improve it. Please note that I am not in the council, so this "We" is neither the council nor the elementary philosophy,

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] "I'm Quitting": we both overreacted

I know that I'm very new to elementary and i also know that my voice doesn't count too much, however I wanted to say what i I think it's the best option. I think elementary could go with both of them. For the "before" maybe a donate button (like the one now in the web) should be fine. Also it does

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] "I'm Quitting": we both overreacted

> > Now to you Sergey, I realize you are very passionate about what you do, > but sometimes you are too passionate about it as well. Cool down, don't > treaten with you leaving before having a open discussion with everyone, not > just one person(in this case Dan). Because that surely pissed off the

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] "I'm Quitting": we both overreacted

He didn't say it was, he said we haven't changed the revenue model, just the web design. On Jul 3, 2012 3:53 PM, "Jaap Broekhuizen" wrote: > Still, how is the revenue model just a webdesign decision? > > > On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 8:51 PM, Daniel Foré wrote: > >> Yes I am. I really think direct-dem

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] "I'm Quitting": we both overreacted

Ok guys, I just peaked into my inbox and saw this whole rant about this pop up again, so please guys, cool down. Now to you Sergey, I realize you are very passionate about what you do, but sometimes you are too passionate about it as well. Cool down, don't treaten with you leaving before having a

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] "I'm Quitting": we both overreacted

2012/7/4 Daniel Foré : > Replace "we" with "the elementary community" then. I think it was pretty > clear what he meant. Also works with Scott's examples. And using a passive impersonal construction (e.g. "nobody is getting paid...") also works. Cool! Still, Scott makes a valid point. Leaving me

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] "I'm Quitting": we both overreacted

Trolling? Really? For the most part, council makes all of elementary's decisions, and therefore represents elementary. And besides, as Sergey said, replacing "we" with "elementary" makes some pretty awkward sentences such as "elementary doesn't ask the developers for their input", but it does make

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] "I'm Quitting": we both overreacted

Replace "we" with "the elementary community" then. I think it was pretty clear what he meant. On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 2:21 PM, Сергей Давыдов wrote: > > "We" are elementary. Replace "we" in every one of those instances with > "elementary" and perhaps it's more clear. > > Last time I checked nobod

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] "I'm Quitting": we both overreacted

> "We" are elementary. Replace "we" in every one of those instances with > "elementary" and perhaps it's more clear. Last time I checked nobody knew what elementary was. When Dan was asked this by Cassidy back in 2010 AFAIR, it was a philosophy. So, no, s/we/elementary/ doesn't make things any mo

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] "I'm Quitting": we both overreacted

2012/7/4 Daniel Foré : > As Cassidy and I have both been trying to say, there has been absolutely no > change whatsoever to our "revenue model" > > As far as I am aware, the only change that is being made is to the design of > the homepage and hopefully the addition of accepting credit cards for >

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] "I'm Quitting": we both overreacted

Scott, you honestly sound like you're trolling at this point. "We" are elementary. Replace "we" in every one of those instances with "elementary" and perhaps it's more clear. > You say you can't rely on developers? Nope. I'm saying elementary should not have to rely on the people who are gracious

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] "I'm Quitting": we both overreacted

Cassidy, I find one consistent theme throughout your email, and that is that you see yourself as above non-council members. Let's see a few examples: "First we need to be able to operate independently before starting any sort of a payroll." "We're not paying anyone for anything at this point. If a

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] "I'm Quitting": we both overreacted

As Cassidy and I have both been trying to say, there has been absolutely no change whatsoever to our "revenue model" It might be helpful if you could describe what you perceived our revenue model to be in the past and what changes you have heard are happening. As far as I am aware, the only chang

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] "I'm Quitting": we both overreacted

On Jul 3, 2012 3:19 PM, "Scott Ringwelski" wrote: > > Putting the democratic issue aside for a moment, please explain this: > > 1. You have said numerous times how you would love to be able to pay your developers. That would obviously be very far down the line once elementary is a legal entity an

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] "I'm Quitting": we both overreacted

Dan, what I asked was for you to explain the flaw in your arguments that I found. Jaap stated it pretty clearly for me: How is the revenue model just a webdesign decision? And additionally: Why aren't the developers, who are just as important to this project, not having the same say in the decisi

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] "I'm Quitting": we both overreacted

Still, how is the revenue model just a webdesign decision? On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 8:51 PM, Daniel Foré wrote: > Yes I am. I really think direct-democracy is just a bad idea. > Historically, we've made good decisions by having the people most involved > in the topic make the call. > > When we're

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] "I'm Quitting": we both overreacted

Sorry I must have misunderstood the question. Can you rephrase it? On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 12:25 PM, Scott Ringwelski wrote: > That did not answer my question at all. > > > On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 3:13 PM, Daniel Foré wrote: > >> And also has also been said before, absolutely nothing whatsoever is

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] "I'm Quitting": we both overreacted

That did not answer my question at all. On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 3:13 PM, Daniel Foré wrote: > And also has also been said before, absolutely nothing whatsoever is > changing about our monetary model. We're still giving away elementary and > we're still providing a way for people to make donations

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] "I'm Quitting": we both overreacted

And also has also been said before, absolutely nothing whatsoever is changing about our monetary model. We're still giving away elementary and we're still providing a way for people to make donations. Today you can download Jupiter for free from the homepage. Today, you can donate to support eleme

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] "I'm Quitting": we both overreacted

> A decision that affects developers greatly was made without them even knowing, left alone being able to influence the decision. To be honest, the exact details of how we present the iso download on our front page doesn't greatly effect developers. elementary is and always has been open source; b

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] "I'm Quitting": we both overreacted

Putting the democratic issue aside for a moment, please explain this: 1. You have said numerous times how you would love to be able to pay your developers. 2. You just mentioned that it's best to have the people most involved in the topic make the call. 3. From this, we can clearly see that develo

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] "I'm Quitting": we both overreacted

Yes I am. I really think direct-democracy is just a bad idea. Historically, we've made good decisions by having the people most involved in the topic make the call. When we're talking about a decision around our developer story, It's best to consult with our developers. When we're talking about a

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] "I'm Quitting": we both overreacted

Daniel, Although i think you raise a good point with the family stuff, you sound a little hostile to me and i think you might have brought the same message somewhat more professional. I must say that Sergey's tone in this discussion (at least in this mail thread) so far has been a lot more reasona

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] "I'm Quitting": we both overreacted

Dan, are you asking why elementary should follow a democratic, whole-team decision making process rather than a more centralized decision making process? On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 1:03 PM, Daniel Foré wrote: > As it turns out, we have families and lives and jobs and responsibilities > outside of el

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] "I'm Quitting": we both overreacted

As it turns out, we have families and lives and jobs and responsibilities outside of elementary. That means that we're not always able to meet every week and discuss every issue. In my personal opinion, this is a web design issue and not something that needs to be run through you first for approva

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] "I'm Quitting": we both overreacted

Okay, it's been a week. In addition, a Council meeting should have taken place three days ago. This seems to be quite enough time to settle on something and write a reply. To speed up the discussion, I stop pretending that everything is all right and cease any work on elementary till I receive an

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] "I'm Quitting": we both overreacted

It's a fact that you hold the most LP karma for elementary... and facts are stubborn things. Your contributions go deep and wide. Miscommunication shouldn't get in the way for the sake of the project. --ttosttos On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 4:30 AM, Сергей Давыдов wrote: > Yesterday I announced in

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] "I'm Quitting": we both overreacted

Sergey, elementary has been moving in the direction of more openness and more transparency since it's inception. We're still not perfect, but we are getting better all the time. Most decisions used to be made by the council, but now most decisions are made in the contributor meeting. We will defini

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] "I'm Quitting": we both overreacted

I may have not made it perfectly clear, but I'm not discussing the decision here. The way the decision was made is what I have a problem with. I appreciate that you consulted Canonical and Yorba, but at the same time you didn't consult your very own developers. A decision that affects developers gr

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] "I'm Quitting": we both overreacted

Shnatsel, As a free-software community researcher myself (in social studies, tought) I can wholeheartly agree with you. I think myself that trying to guide the users to pay the software isn't the best solution, and can drive potential users away. But that's not the scope (what a strange word!

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] "I'm Quitting": we both overreacted

2012/6/25 Eduard Gotwig > what you've done for the project was not only good, but essential - > especially for daily builds and the (super awsom new) build system :-) > Now I have one more thing to clarify XD The only "new build system" I made was refactoring the hell out of eBuild several time

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] "I'm Quitting": we both overreacted

Sergey, I must say that I appreciate the tone and professionalism of your email. In the volunteer software development world, it is easy to have conflict, and difficult to resolve said conflict in a way that benefits all involved parties. I truly hope that we don't lose some of our best and most im

[Elementary-dev-community] "I'm Quitting": we both overreacted

Yesterday I announced in #elementary-dev and #elementary-web that I'm quitting the project. Rumors spread fast and they're usually more scary than truth is, so I'm writing this to clarify what happened, what caused me to do that and "if I'm really quitting". *What happened* I'm attaching the cont