Hi Max,
Just for reference, I (automatically) embed the `.tex' and `.org' source files
in PDFs I
produce.
Max Nikulin writes:
> It is unrelated to accessibility, but I have heard that OpenOffice may embed
> original document into generated PDF to allow “edit PDF” feature. Instead of
>
On 01/10/2022 11:36, Ihor Radchenko wrote:
Also, would it help to embed an Org source into the generated PDF?
It is unrelated to accessibility, but I have heard that OpenOffice may
embed original document into generated PDF to allow "edit PDF" feature.
Instead of attempting to map PDF
Ihor Radchenko writes:
No on both counts.
> "T.V Raman" writes:
>
>> 8. Now, connect the dots, newer LaTeX packages like the one mentioned
>>(there may well be others now or in the future) can inprinciple
>>ensure that the required "back pointers to regenerate the original
>>
"T.V Raman" writes:
> 8. Now, connect the dots, newer LaTeX packages like the one mentioned
>(there may well be others now or in the future) can inprinciple
>ensure that the required "back pointers to regenerate the original
>markup" can make it all the way through to the generated
correct; user-facing tools are still lacking but that shouldn't cause
us to wait since that creates a chicken-and-egg problem.
Max Nikulin writes:
> On 30/09/2022 20:29, T.V Raman wrote:
> >
> > 9. Note that this is not the end of the trail; for such exports to
> > make a difference to
On 30/09/2022 20:29, T.V Raman wrote:
9. Note that this is not the end of the trail; for such exports to
make a difference to the end-user, user-facing tools still need to
know "how" to leverage these facilities.
Do you mean that there are no tools yet that may take advantage of math
As one example, yes.
Here is hopefully a more detailed explanation:
1. First off, here Accessibility == Specifically, Accessibility to the
blind.
2. For blind and low vision users, you may need to "re-render" the
math, either via magnification, speech or Braille.
3. For doing this, you
Accessibility issues of exported files have been raised on the Org mode
mail list again. I decided to revive this thread because I noticed a
LaTeX package that may be related to the following suggestion (I am not
sure that I got it right though).
On 07/07/2022 21:42, T.V Raman wrote:
3. For
Ihor Radchenko writes:
What can or cannot be preserved is a function of the export format.
MathJax is a wonderful thing and the LaTeX expression embedded in the
HTML is the best one can do -- MathML loses semantics -- which is why I
always recommend preserving the LaTeX when going to HTML.
PDF
"T.V Raman" writes:
> > > 3. For math especially, make sure the TeX/LaTeX is preserved one
> > > way or the other in the export
> >
> > Do you refer to the TeX source? To any specific export format?
> 2. Math: Yes -- I meant the TeX/LaTeX representation of a math
>
1. Labels: yes -- figure captions etc. are examples of "labels" in
general.
2. Math: Yes -- I meant the TeX/LaTeX representation of a math
expression.
Ihor Radchenko writes:
> "T.V Raman" writes:
>
> > On org side:
>
> Thanks for the feedback!
>
> > 1. During authoring,
Correct.
1. Org should be the truth, not some export format that is picked
based on political opinion.
2. Lowest Common denominator in my vocabulary is a "bad word" that LCD
is something that makes everyone equally unhappy.
So Take-Away:
1. Make org the best format for holding the
"T.V Raman" writes:
> On org side:
Thanks for the feedback!
> 1. During authoring, ensure that authors have the ability to label
>images, drawings and math content.
>2. When exporting, make sure that that information gets through to
> the exported format.
Could you please
briangpowell writes:
> Suggest OrgMode outputs focus on creating "Lowest Common Denominator"
> documents as output:
> TeXinfo docs should be used as the LCD doctype--suggest you focus on
> creating 1 document in Texinfo that you use to create all other sorts of
> documents, when possible:
>
>
briangpowell writes:
P.S. Please dont quote me out of context. I did not say pdftex and
pdflatex were not useful, I still rely on them heavily.
> "[I suspect that the exported documents can similarly be improved to
> reduce the amount of effort required from visually impaired users to
> read
>
P.S. Emacspeak is not camel-cased -- please say Emacspeak -- and not
with the 's' capitalized.
--
Thanks,
--Raman(I Search, I Find, I Misplace, I Research)
♉ Id: kg:/m/0285kf1 瑩
--
Thanks,
--Raman(I Search, I Find, I Misplace, I Research)
♉ Id: kg:/m/0285kf1 瑩
On org side:
1. During authoring, ensure that authors have the ability to label
images, drawings and math content.
2. When exporting, make sure that that information gets through to
the exported format.
3. For math especially, make sure the TeX/LaTeX is preserved one
"[I suspect that the exported documents can similarly be improved to
reduce the amount of effort required from visually impaired users to read
such documents. The question is what improvements can be made on
Org side.]
Best,
Ihor"
Very glad to hear from TV Raman, the creator of EmacSpeak,
I'm
"T.V Raman" writes:
> 1. Accessibility as word used in isolation has now become mostly
>meaningless, to be concrete one has to ask "Accessibility to whom"?
>
> 2. So in the following, everything I say is with respect to users with
>visual impairments.
This is exactly the perspective I
Thanks for looping me in.
I'm not subscribed to emacs-orgmode --- so feel free to forward if you
find the thoughts below materially useful.
As a long-term org-mode user --- and an even longer term TeX
user: here are some thoughts:
1. Accessibility as word used in isolation has now become
Let me take a freedom to add T.V Raman to the discussion. This thread
might be of interest for him and he probably knows a lot more about
accessibility options.
This thread starts at
https://list.orgmode.org/87v8sn3obd@gmail.com/T/#u
Juan Manuel Macías writes:
> Tim Cross writes:
>
>> As I
Tim Cross writes:
> As I understand it (which isn't brilliant), the core problem is more to
> do with how the LaTeX/TeX engine processes the input to generate the
> postscript and pdf output. Modern PDFs have a wealth of internal tagging
> which simply sin't supported via the tex -> pdf pathway.
Ihor Radchenko writes:
> Tim Cross writes:
>
>> Sadly, org isn't great from an accessibility perspective. This is
>> something I would like to see improved, but it is a huge and complex
>> task. There are some 'easy' winds we could try. For example, org still
>> defaults to using the and
Tim Cross writes:
> Sadly, org isn't great from an accessibility perspective. This is
> something I would like to see improved, but it is a huge and complex
> task. There are some 'easy' winds we could try. For example, org still
> defaults to using the and tags instead of
> and . Likewise,
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