Re: [PSES] Do We Need Flame Retardants in Electronics?

2019-09-17 Thread Bill Owsley
Many years ago, we used the EMC grill, top and bottom of chassis, coated with an intumescent material that swelled with heat above a certain temperature to shut off the air flow and starve the fire.  Max ventilation was essential to normal operation, thus the coating for a fire condition, also

Re: [PSES] Do We Need Flame Retardants in Electronics?

2019-09-17 Thread Pete Perkins
Oh yes, I remember doing safety consulting with a company on a telecom product but they wanted to handle all of the telecom GR issues themselves. One morning the technician hauled me into a small conference room and showed me a video of the burn test which was started by putting a burner into

Re: [PSES] Do We Need Flame Retardants in Electronics?

2019-09-17 Thread N. Shani
Just a small addendum: while indeed GR-1089 has all kind of immunity requirements, it is GR-63 that has the non-electrical requirements, one of which is the flame spread testing. Having witnessed a few of those passing or failing tests, the various RBOCs had their own spin on those

Re: [PSES] Do We Need Flame Retardants in Electronics?

2019-09-17 Thread Cortland Richmond
When I went to work at DSC/Alcatel USA in 1997, we had to meet GR-1089. Telcordia had/has a lot of immunity and ruggedness requirements.  Yes, we did flammability tests.    I've been in the Hinsdale Central Office too (I was looking at an EMI complaint at one of their subscribers)  ad got the

Re: [PSES] Do We Need Flame Retardants in Electronics?

2019-09-17 Thread Cortland Richmond
Some years ago, in another century, I was hired to work in the EMC labs at Tandy Corporation, in Fort Worth Texas. When I showed up, they realized they hadn't actually budgeted funds to pay me – but they did have money for consultants, and so they had me build, from the piled-up  panels,  a

Re: [PSES] Intentional radiator Class A or Class B

2019-09-17 Thread michaeld
Hi Charlie, The last presentation from ETSI that I recall on the topic, stated that we should be looking at EN 301 489-1 V2.x.x and newer. We should not be considering the old EN 301 489-1 V1.9.2 because that is simply not sufficient for the RED. Thanks, Michael. From: Charlie

Re: [PSES] Intentional radiator Class A or Class B

2019-09-17 Thread Charlie Blackham
Gert EN 301 489-1 V1.9.2 was published in 2011 and is quite old now As you know, EN 301 489-1 V2.1.1 was published by ETSI in February 2017 and the latest draft, V2.2.0 was issued by ETSI in March 2019 - both contain radiated immunity requirements to 6 GHz, which are more extensive than those

Re: [PSES] Intentional radiator Class A or Class B

2019-09-17 Thread Gert Gremmen
Hi Charlie That version of the standard 301-489-1 V2.2.1 has not yet been approved, yet published, so be careful For now keep relying on V1.9.2 , that does not mention your text on industrial environment, and that has not yet been cited under the RED either. Gert Gremmen On 17-9-2019

Re: [PSES] Intentional radiator Class A or Class B

2019-09-17 Thread Charlie Blackham
You can use Class A for industrial locations under EN 301 489-1: 8.2.3 Limits The ancillary equipment shall meet the class B limits given in CENELEC EN 55032 [1], annex A tables A.4 and A.5. Alternatively, for ancillary equipment intended to be used exclusively in an industrial environment or

Re: [PSES] Intentional radiator Class A or Class B

2019-09-17 Thread Gert Gremmen
Note that for intentional transmitters the EMCD en LVD are not applicable (but the RED is!). And so are the standards listed for them. Probably as this is a transceiver with ancillary equipment (though heavily integrated?) the  combi EN 301489-17/EN 301 489-1 will be applicable. The latter

[PSES] AW: [PSES] Do We Need Flame Retardants in Electronics?

2019-09-17 Thread Dürrer Bernd
Hello Richard, Thank you for sharing this interesting article. I remember from the Grenfell Tower fire discussion on this list, that Adam Dixon shared this UK data source for incidents: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/fire-statistics-data-tables This also includes

Re: [PSES] Intentional radiator Class A or Class B

2019-09-17 Thread John Woodgate
Not exactly. The question was strictly about 'Class', which of course can mean different things in different standards, but my answer is, I think, correct for Europe. Intentional radiation is excluded from the CISPR standards and is covered by the ETSI standards cited by Charlie Blackham.