On 8/15/2011 7:08 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
just like you can simulate flight if you simulate the
environment you are flying in.
But do we need to simulate the entire atmosphere in order to simulate
flight, or just the atmosphere in the immediate area around the surfaces
of the plane?
On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 12:18 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote:
You can simulate it as far as being able to model the aspects of it's
behavior that you can observe, but you can't necessarily predict that
behavior over time, any more than you can predict what other people
might
On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Colin Geoffrey Hales
cgha...@unimelb.edu.au wrote:
1) simulation of the chemistry or physics underlying the brain is impossible
It’s quite possible, just irrelevant! ‘Chemistry’ and ‘physics’ are terms
for models of the natural world used to describe how
On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 2:58 AM, Pilar Morales
pilarmorales...@gmail.com wrote:
Does Comp address ego little or not, or super human powers, or theory
brewing? How about miracles, and temporarily apparent,
and non-repeatable, break down of laws of physics?
For example, in the early 1900s,
Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Aug 15, 10:43 pm, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote:
I am more worried for the biologically handicapped in the future.
Computers
will get faster, brains won't. By 2029, it is predicted $1,000 worth of
computer will buy a human brain's worth of computational
On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 10:03 PM, benjayk
benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.com wrote:
Also, we have no reliable way of measuring the computational power of the
brain, not to speak of the possibly existing subtle energies that go beyond
the brain, that may be essential to our functioning. The way
On Aug 16, 1:49 am, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote:
The I/O interface could involve neurotransmitters which are
synthesised and released when the artificial neuron sees the
appropriate voltage, and an enzyme which mops up the released
neurotransmitter.
Right. Not really an
On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 7:03 AM, benjayk benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.comwrote:
Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Aug 15, 10:43 pm, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote:
I am more worried for the biologically handicapped in the future.
Computers
will get faster, brains won't. By 2029, it
On Aug 16, 3:22 am, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 12:18 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com
wrote:
You can simulate it as far as being able to model the aspects of it's
behavior that you can observe, but you can't necessarily predict that
On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 7:42 AM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.comwrote:
On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 2:58 AM, Pilar Morales
pilarmorales...@gmail.com wrote:
Does Comp address ego little or not, or super human powers, or theory
brewing? How about miracles, and temporarily apparent,
and
On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 8:23 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.comwrote:
On Aug 16, 3:22 am, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 12:18 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com
wrote:
You can simulate it as far as being able to model the aspects of it's
On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 11:09 PM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote:
On Aug 16, 1:49 am, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote:
The I/O interface could involve neurotransmitters which are
synthesised and released when the artificial neuron sees the
appropriate voltage, and an
On Aug 16, 8:03 am, benjayk benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.com wrote:
Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Aug 15, 10:43 pm, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote:
I am more worried for the biologically handicapped in the future.
Computers
will get faster, brains won't. By 2029, it is predicted
On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 11:23 PM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote:
If the brain does something not predictable by modelling its
biochemistry that means it works by magic.
Then you are saying that whether you accept what I'm what I'm writing
here or not is purely predictable
On 15 Aug 2011, at 19:53, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:
On 15.08.2011 19:18 Bruno Marchal said the following:
Hi Evgenii,
On 14 Aug 2011, at 21:25, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:
Bruno,
Let me put it this way. I guess that a Lobian machine could be
implemented, or it has been already implemented. So let
On 16 Aug 2011, at 08:08, Colin Geoffrey Hales wrote:
On 8/15/2011 7:08 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
just like you can simulate flight if you simulate the environment
you are flying in.
But do we need to simulate the entire atmosphere in order to
simulate flight, or just the atmosphere in the
On Aug 16, 8:10 am, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 10:03 PM, benjayk
benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.com wrote:
Also, we have no reliable way of measuring the computational power of the
brain, not to speak of the possibly existing subtle energies that go
Jason Resch-2 wrote:
On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 7:03 AM, benjayk
benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.comwrote:
Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Aug 15, 10:43 pm, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote:
I am more worried for the biologically handicapped in the future.
Computers
will get faster,
Stathis Papaioannou-2 wrote:
On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 10:03 PM, benjayk
benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.com wrote:
Also, we have no reliable way of measuring the computational power of the
brain, not to speak of the possibly existing subtle energies that go
beyond
the brain, that may be
On 15 Aug 2011, at 20:50, benjayk wrote:
Bruno Marchal wrote:
Bruno Marchal wrote:
All I can say to the debate whether your TOE is dependent on
consciousness
is that it may not assume consciousness, but this doesn't mean
it's
independent of it, or prior to it.
I would say of
Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 15 Aug 2011, at 20:50, benjayk wrote:
Bruno Marchal wrote:
Bruno Marchal wrote:
All I can say to the debate whether your TOE is dependent on
consciousness
is that it may not assume consciousness, but this doesn't mean
it's
independent of it, or prior
Stathis,
do you have a reasonable opinion about whatever you (and physicists?) call:
*energy*?
(Not how to measure it, not what it does, not the result of 'it', or
quantitative relations, or kinds you differentiate, but 'is it a thing'?
where it comes from and how? i.e. an i*dentification of the
On Aug 16, 9:59 am, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 11:09 PM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Aug 16, 1:49 am, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote:
The I/O interface could involve neurotransmitters which are
synthesised and
On Aug 16, 10:08 am, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote:
Our body precisely follows the deterministic biochemical reactions
that comprise it. The mind is generated as a result of these
biochemical reactions; a reaction occurs in your brain which causes
you to have a thought to move
On 8/15/2011 11:08 PM, Colin Geoffrey Hales wrote:
On 8/15/2011 7:08 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
just like you can simulate flight if you simulate the environment
you are flying in.
But do we need to simulate the entire atmosphere in order to simulate
flight, or just the atmosphere in
On 8/16/2011 7:08 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
Our body precisely follows the deterministic biochemical reactions
that comprise it. The mind is generated as a result of these
biochemical reactions; a reaction occurs in your brain which causes
you to have a thought to move your arm and move
On 8/16/2011 7:50 AM, benjayk wrote:
And the problem with the reductionist view is?
It seeks to dissect reality into pieces,
And also to explain how the pieces interact in reality.
Brent
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On 8/16/2011 10:16 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
It's not only possible, it absolutely is otherwise. I move my arm. I
determine the biochemical reactions that move it. Me. For my personal
reasons which are knowable to me in my own natural language and are
utterly unknowable by biochemical analysis.
On 16 Aug 2011, at 05:55, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Aug 15, 3:46 pm, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
On 14 Aug 2011, at 23:42, Craig Weinberg wrote:
Why not? I'm just saying that if I've never been outside of
Nebraska,
I will have an exponentially better chance of being able to
On 15.08.2011 23:42 Jason Resch said the following:
On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Evgenii Rudnyiuse...@rudnyi.ru
wrote:
On 15.08.2011 07:56 Jason Resch said the following:
...
Can we accurately simulate physical laws or can't we? Before you
answer, take a few minutes to watch this
On 16.08.2011 02:28 Stathis Papaioannou said the following:
On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 3:53 AM, Evgenii Rudnyiuse...@rudnyi.ru
wrote:
On 15.08.2011 19:18 Bruno Marchal said the following:
Hi Evgenii,
On 14 Aug 2011, at 21:25, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:
Bruno,
Let me put it this way. I guess that
On 16.08.2011 16:08 Stathis Papaioannou said the following:
On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 11:23 PM, Craig
Weinbergwhatsons...@gmail.com wrote:
If the brain does something not predictable by modelling its
biochemistry that means it works by magic.
Then you are saying that whether you accept what
On 16.08.2011 16:18 Bruno Marchal said the following:
On 15 Aug 2011, at 19:53, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:
On 15.08.2011 19:18 Bruno Marchal said the following:
Hi Evgenii,
On 14 Aug 2011, at 21:25, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:
Bruno,
Let me put it this way. I guess that a Lobian machine could be
On 16 Aug 2011, at 02:23, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 3:32 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be
wrote:
Suppose a teacher is in front of his classroom answering questions
of the
student.
Then at time t, his brain stops completely to function, but a cosmic
explosion,
meekerdb wrote:
On 8/16/2011 7:50 AM, benjayk wrote:
And the problem with the reductionist view is?
It seeks to dissect reality into pieces,
And also to explain how the pieces interact in reality.
Right, otherwise there is little use in dissecting. But the very concept of
On 8/16/2011 11:03 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:
Yes, this is why in my first post, I said consider God's Turing
machine (free from our limitations). Then it is obvious that with
the appropriate tape, a physical system can be approximated to any
desired level of accuracy so long as it is
On 8/16/2011 11:31 AM, benjayk wrote:
meekerdb wrote:
On 8/16/2011 7:50 AM, benjayk wrote:
And the problem with the reductionist view is?
It seeks to dissect reality into pieces,
And also to explain how the pieces interact in reality.
On Aug 16, 1:44 pm, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 8/16/2011 10:16 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
It's not only possible, it absolutely is otherwise. I move my arm. I
determine the biochemical reactions that move it. Me. For my personal
reasons which are knowable to me in my own
On 8/16/2011 9:27 AM, John Mikes wrote:
Stathis,
do you have a reasonable opinion about whatever you (and physicists?)
call: */_energy_/*?
(Not how to measure it, not what it does, not the result of 'it', or
quantitative relations, or kinds you differentiate, but 'is it a
thing'? where it
On 8/16/2011 9:35 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Aug 16, 9:59 am, Stathis Papaioannoustath...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 11:09 PM, Craig Weinbergwhatsons...@gmail.com wrote:
On Aug 16, 1:49 am, Stathis Papaioannoustath...@gmail.com wrote:
The I/O interface could involve
On 8/16/2011 12:37 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Aug 16, 1:44 pm, meekerdbmeeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 8/16/2011 10:16 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
It's not only possible, it absolutely is otherwise. I move my arm. I
determine the biochemical reactions that move it. Me. For my
On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 1:03 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi use...@rudnyi.ru wrote:
On 15.08.2011 23:42 Jason Resch said the following:
On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Evgenii Rudnyiuse...@rudnyi.ru
wrote:
On 15.08.2011 07:56 Jason Resch said the following:
...
Can we accurately simulate
On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 9:32 AM, benjayk benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.comwrote:
Jason Resch-2 wrote:
On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 7:03 AM, benjayk
benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.comwrote:
Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Aug 15, 10:43 pm, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote:
I am more
On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 2:35 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote:
A computer needs I/O devices such as keyboards and screens if it is to
interact with its environment.
No, it doesn't. We need keyboards and screens if We are to interact
with a computer. The computer already does
On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 4:04 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi use...@rudnyi.ru wrote:
But the scientists could be studying zombies. There is no way of
knowing. What we can know is that IF the original brain is conscious
and is modified with a functional analogue THEN the modified brain
will also be
On Aug 16, 7:35 pm, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 8/16/2011 12:37 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Aug 16, 1:44 pm, meekerdbmeeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 8/16/2011 10:16 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
It's not only possible, it absolutely is otherwise. I move my arm. I
On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 3:16 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote:
On Aug 16, 10:08 am, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote:
Our body precisely follows the deterministic biochemical reactions
that comprise it. The mind is generated as a result of these
biochemical
On 8/16/2011 6:57 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Aug 16, 7:35 pm, meekerdbmeeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 8/16/2011 12:37 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Aug 16, 1:44 pm, meekerdbmeeke...@verizon.netwrote:
On 8/16/2011 10:16 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Aug 16, 1:49 pm, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
On 16 Aug 2011, at 05:55, Craig Weinberg wrote:
Can you give me an example that supports this? We're embedded in a
reality whether we like it or not. I'm saying that the more similar
the target reality is to our reality, the better
On Aug 16, 7:28 pm, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 8/16/2011 9:35 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
A computer needs I/O devices such as keyboards and screens if it is to
interact with its environment.
No, it doesn't. We need keyboards and screens if We are to interact
with a computer.
On Aug 16, 9:38 pm, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 2:35 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote:
A computer needs I/O devices such as keyboards and screens if it is to
interact with its environment.
No, it doesn't. We need keyboards and screens
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