Re: Autonomy?

2012-06-17 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 2:25 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: The processes in the spiritual realm would still either be determined or random, Would it? Or is that just an assumption?  Is it necessary that there be laws that determine everything not random by antecedent states?  

Re: Autonomy?

2012-06-17 Thread John Clark
On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: I don' believe in this spirit theory anyway; I was just trying to show it was a testable theory. I have never understood why things are supposed to become less self-contradictory in the spirit world than in our world or how spirit

Every Event has a Cause as Metaphysics

2012-06-17 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
In his book An Essay on Metaphysics in Part IIIc Causation, Collingwood has considered what could mean that every event must have a cause. This could be interesting for a discussion on free will, as Collingwood shows that causation presupposes free will. In other words, if free will is to be

Re: Theology deepities

2012-06-17 Thread John Clark
On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 Evgenii Rudnyi use...@rudnyi.ru wrote: Note that you will find Kurt Goedel among the authors of ontological arguments on the page above. Somebody mentioned the exact same thing a few months ago and this is what I had to say about it: That was in Godel's later years when

Re: Every Event has a Cause as Metaphysics

2012-06-17 Thread John Clark
On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 11:03 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi use...@rudnyi.ru wrote: For me personally, it is a puzzle why modern physics still needs that every event has a cause. I don't know what you're talking about. Modern physics does not say every event has a cause, in fact it says the exact

Re: Autonomy?

2012-06-17 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 17 Jun 2012, at 16:54, John Clark wrote: On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: I don' believe in this spirit theory anyway; I was just trying to show it was a testable theory. I have never understood why things are supposed to become less self- contradictory in

Re: Theology deepities

2012-06-17 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 17 Jun 2012, at 17:09, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 Evgenii Rudnyi use...@rudnyi.ru wrote: Note that you will find Kurt Goedel among the authors of ontological arguments on the page above. Somebody mentioned the exact same thing a few months ago and this is what I had to

Re: Autonomy?

2012-06-17 Thread John Clark
On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: We can perhaps agree that consciousness-here-and-now is the only truth we know which seems undoubtable, so it might be more easy to explain the illusion of matter to consciousness than the illusion of consciousness to a piece

Re: Every Event has a Cause as Metaphysics

2012-06-17 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 17.06.2012 17:15 John Clark said the following: On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 11:03 AM, Evgenii Rudnyiuse...@rudnyi.ru wrote: For me personally, it is a puzzle why modern physics still needs that every event has a cause. I don't know what you're talking about. Modern physics does not say every

Re: Autonomy?

2012-06-17 Thread meekerdb
On 6/17/2012 7:54 AM, John Clark wrote: On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: I don' believe in this spirit theory anyway; I was just trying to show it was a testable theory. I have never understood why things are supposed to become

Re: Every Event has a Cause as Metaphysics

2012-06-17 Thread meekerdb
On 6/17/2012 8:03 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: Collingwood has shown that what we find nowadays as self-evident has started with Kant only (just a bit more than 200 years ago). p. 328 (a) That every event has a cause, (b) That the cause of an event is a previous event, (c) That (a) and (b) are

Re: Every Event has a Cause as Metaphysics

2012-06-17 Thread Russell Standish
On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 07:42:08PM +0200, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: By the way, I believe that in Grand Design, Hawkins is talking about cause and effect. 5 points on Baez's crackpot index for quoting Hawking's mispelt name: http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/crackpot.html (item 8). (Couldn't