Re: The anecdote of Moon landing

Randi is a charlatan. He (and the people the cite him) has no understanding whatsoever about how science works. He wants from people to do instant magic. But that's not how science works. Even the CERN scientists are making billions of collisions in order to obtain 1 Higgs boson. If it were for

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

On Wednesday, May 15, 2019 at 6:55:08 PM UTC-5, Bruce wrote: > > mind supervenes on the brain > Bruce > The heart* pumps blood. The brain pumps experiences. The brain is an experience pump! * Actually it's more complex: blood cells are made in bone marrow signaled by the kidneys and recycled

Re: for Cosmin

> On 14 May 2019, at 20:45, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, May 14, 2019 at 11:24:06 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 13 May 2019, at 20:24, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Monday, May 13, 2019 at 12:25:38 PM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 10 May 2019, at 0

Re: How separating mind from matter ruined mental health

> On 13 May 2019, at 20:48, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Monday, May 13, 2019 at 1:23:22 PM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 11 May 2019, at 08:13, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> https://aeon.co/ideas/how-the-dualism-of-descartes-ruined-our-mental-health >>

Re: How separating mind from matter ruined mental health

> On 13 May 2019, at 15:27, John Clark wrote: > > On Sat, May 11, 2019 at 7:21 PM Philip Thrift > wrote: > > > At least now you are saying "brain activity" instead of "mind". That's > > progress. > > I think you're talking about the "difference" between 6 and ha

Re: The anecdote of Moon landing

In fact, sir, I personally know Randi, having met him at events and by telephone. He is totally NOT a charlatan. He won the MacArthur Prize for his tireless work on exposing charlatans such as Uri Geller (MacArthur Prize usually given to prospective young science students, Randi received it in

Re: for Cosmin

On Thursday, May 16, 2019 at 4:44:48 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 14 May 2019, at 20:45, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, May 14, 2019 at 11:24:06 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 13 May 2019, at 20:24, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Monday, May 13, 2019 at

Re: The anecdote of Moon landing

You have a belief that precognition and telepathy/psychic phenomena are real -  if one looks, using the scientific method, as Randi did, it is impossible to find anyone who can actually perform under controlled conditions that the claimant themselves sets as conditions of a test (even if the te

Re: The anecdote of Moon landing

In a test in which people are asked to "guess" 1 in 4 pictures, the results are 32% instead of 25%. Telepathy is not only real, but is obviously real. Sorry mate, you need to change your beliefs. On Thursday, 16 May 2019 13:26:57 UTC+3, howardmarks wrote: > > You have a belief that precognition

Re: The anecdote of Moon landing

Sorry mate, if the issue is about "beliefs" rather than reality, then you are making it a believing game.  Truth is not a believing game. It's not about believing whether telepathy is real - it is about impartially testing claimants under controlled conditions. You are treating your belief in t

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

On Wednesday, May 15, 2019 at 6:45:43 PM UTC+2, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 14 May 2019, at 01:54, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < > everyth...@googlegroups.com > wrote: > > > > On 5/13/2019 4:18 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: > > 3) Or maybe it's "what the brain does", as many physicalists like

Re: Precision

On Wednesday, May 15, 2019 at 6:39:57 PM UTC-5, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, May 15, 2019 at 5:58:07 PM UTC-5, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >> >> On Wednesday, May 15, 2019 at 12:59:59 AM UTC-5, Philip Thrift wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tuesday, May 14, 2019 at 8:07:07 PM UTC-5, Lawrence Cro

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

The question is why does it supervene on the brain and not on the elbow.  What about the brain causes it to "make experiences"?  Most scientists think it is because the brain does computations, i.e. information processing, which is more extensive and complex that the elbow does.  Which leads to

Re: The anecdote of Moon landing

On Wednesday, May 15, 2019 at 7:18:47 AM UTC-5, Cosmin Visan wrote: > > I heard there are a couple of people that claim they've been on the Moon. > I asked them to prove it to me by going again, but they said they cannot do > it. What do you think ? Is this anecdote true ? > When I was a kid I w

Re: How separating mind from matter ruined mental health

On 5/16/2019 3:00 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 13 May 2019, at 20:48, Philip Thrift > wrote: On Monday, May 13, 2019 at 1:23:22 PM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 11 May 2019, at 08:13, Philip Thrift > wrote: https://aeon.co/ideas/how-the-dualism-o

Re: The anecdote of Moon landing

Oh good.  Then let's play.  I've got plenty of sets of four photos. I'll arrange four in a line and tell Howard which one I'm thinking of, and you can tell him which one I'm thinking of using your obviously real telepathy and we'll see if you can do better than chance.  OK? Brent On 5/16/2019

Re: Precision

On 5/16/2019 4:48 AM, Lawrence Crowell wrote: On Wednesday, May 15, 2019 at 6:39:57 PM UTC-5, Philip Thrift wrote: On Wednesday, May 15, 2019 at 5:58:07 PM UTC-5, Lawrence Crowell wrote: On Wednesday, May 15, 2019 at 12:59:59 AM UTC-5, Philip Thrift wrote:

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

This is what I call one form of *consciousness denial* https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/03/13/the-consciousness-deniers/ in that information processing absent actual *first-class* entities of qualia (or experiences) can only produce zombies. One needs information processing operating

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

On 5/16/2019 5:52 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: This is what I call one form of *consciousness denial* https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/03/13/the-consciousness-deniers/ in that information processing absent actual /first-class/ entities of qualia (or experiences) can only produce zombies. One

Is your elbow conscious?

On Thursday, May 16, 2019 at 8:00:42 AM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > > > On 5/16/2019 5:52 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > This is what I call one form of *consciousness denial* > > https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/03/13/the-consciousness-deniers/ > > in that information processing absent actu

Re: Is your elbow conscious?

On 5/16/2019 6:29 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: You still need to explain why your elbow isn't conscious. Brent The elbow (the matter that is halfway down your arm between your shoulder and hand) could have proto-consciousness (or a proto-experientiality, as some say): https://plato

Re: Precision

> On 15 May 2019, at 03:07, Lawrence Crowell > wrote: > > On Tuesday, May 14, 2019 at 9:24:05 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 12 May 2019, at 09:08, Evgenii Rudnyi > > > wrote: > > > > ‘I believe there are > > 15,747,724,136,275,002,577,605,653,961,181,555,468,044,717,914,527,116,7

Re: Precision

> On 15 May 2019, at 19:01, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: > > This is not a joke. For internal reason Eddington evaluated the number of > particles as N = 2 x 136 x 2^256. Is 136 related to some physical constant? Why 2^(a power of two)? Any idea where this estimation comes from, and why it would b

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

> On 14 May 2019, at 22:47, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 5/14/2019 9:10 AM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 4:46 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List >> mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> >> wrote: >> >> >> On 5/13/2019 8:50 AM, Jaso

Re: Is your elbow conscious?

On Thursday, May 16, 2019 at 11:07:35 AM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > > > On 5/16/2019 6:29 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: > > You still need to explain why your elbow isn't conscious. >> >> Brent >> > > > > The elbow (the matter that is halfway down your arm between your shoulder > and hand) could have

Re: Precision

Am 16.05.2019 um 19:05 schrieb Bruno Marchal: On 15 May 2019, at 19:01, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: This is not a joke. For internal reason Eddington evaluated the number of particles as N = 2 x 136 x 2^256. Is 136 related to some physical constant? Why 2^(a power of two)? Any idea where this e

Re: Precision

Eddington wrote a book "Fundamental Theory" which was apparently never quite finished.  I only know of it because there's a book I have by Higman "Applied Group Theoretic and Matrix Methods" that devotes the last chapter to a review of Eddington's "Quantum Relativity" in which he says he gives

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 7:20 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > > On 5/15/2019 7:39 AM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 7:29 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < > everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > >> >> >> On 5/14/20

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 7:25 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > > On 5/15/2019 8:15 AM, Jason Resch wrote: > > Nothing is wrong, except that you are using a different notion of "real". >> Integers are invented by humans, even though there is inters

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 9:00 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > > On 5/16/2019 5:52 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > This is what I call one form of *consciousness denial* > > https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/03/13/the-consciousness-deniers

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

On 5/16/2019 12:10 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 7:25 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: On 5/15/2019 8:15 AM, Jason Resch wrote: Nothing is wrong, except that you are using a different notion of

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 9:00 AM 'Brent Meeker' < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: * > You still need to explain why your elbow isn't conscious.* > According to my consciousness theory my elbow is the seat of my consciousness, specifically my left elbow. I maintain that one armed men are

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 4:54 PM Jason Resch wrote: *> we need to demonstrate that the elbow isn't consciousness. E.g., it can > exhibit reflexes to simuli without involving the brain.* How would that prove anything? What proof is there that a reflexe or any other observable behavior has anythi

Re: Is your elbow conscious?

On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 1:48 PM Philip Thrift wrote: *> Information processing absent actual first-class entities of qualia (or > experiences) can only produce zombies. One needs information processing > operating in a material substrate where those entities are available to be > combined and man

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

On 5/16/2019 1:54 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 9:00 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: On 5/16/2019 5:52 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: This is what I call one form of *consciousness denial* https://www.nybo

Re: How do AI fanboys explain telepathy and precognition ?

On 11-05-2019 22:31, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote: How do AI fanboys explain telepathy and precognition ? In the case of consciousness <> AI, telepathy and precognition are more easily explainable, in the sense that consciousness being non-local, it can indeed create cases in which sp

Re: Precision

On Thursday, May 16, 2019 at 11:57:44 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 15 May 2019, at 03:07, Lawrence Crowell > wrote: > > On Tuesday, May 14, 2019 at 9:24:05 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> > On 12 May 2019, at 09:08, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: >> > >> > ‘I believe there are >> 15,

Re: How do AI fanboys explain telepathy and precognition ?

On 5/11/2019 11:59 PM, smitra wrote: On 11-05-2019 22:31, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote: How do AI fanboys explain telepathy and precognition ? In the case of consciousness <> AI, telepathy and precognition are more easily explainable, in the sense that consciousness being non-loca

Re: Is your elbow conscious?

On Thu, May 16, 2019, at 17:07, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: > > > On 5/16/2019 6:29 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: >>> You still need to explain why your elbow isn't conscious. >>> >>> Brent >> >> >> >> The elbow (the matter that is halfway down your arm between your shoulder >> a

Re: Is your elbow conscious?

On Thursday, May 16, 2019 at 5:14:46 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > > > On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 1:48 PM Philip Thrift > wrote: > > *> Information processing absent actual first-class entities of qualia (or >> experiences) can only produce zombies. One needs information processing >> operating i

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

On Sat, May 11, 2019, at 00:02, Bruce Kellett wrote: > On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 11:42 PM Jason Resch wrote: >> On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 8:16 AM Bruce Kellett wrote: >>> Then with mechanism, we get the many-histories from a simple fact to prove: all computations are realised in all mod

Re: Is your elbow conscious?

On Friday, May 17, 2019 at 1:42:41 AM UTC-5, telmo wrote: > > > > But then "panpyschism" does no work. It's just a hypothetical property of > matter that says if some matter does information processing then that > matter is conscious, otherwise it's not. But that's already what > materialist