Re: Re: Emergence of Properties

2012-11-17 Thread Roger Clough
ot;Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Stephen P. King Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-11-16, 11:37:13 Subject: Re: Emergence of Properties On 11/16/2012 8:48 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Stephen P. King But

Re: Emergence of Properties

2012-11-16 Thread Stephen P. King
r is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - *From:* Stephen P. King <mailto:stephe...@charter.net> *Receiver:* everything-list <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com> *Time:* 2012-11-16, 07:25:39 *Subject:* Re: E

Re: Re: Emergence of Properties

2012-11-16 Thread Roger Clough
] 11/16/2012 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Stephen P. King Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-11-16, 07:25:39 Subject: Re: Emergence of Properties On 11/16/2012 6:44 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Steph

Re: Emergence of Properties

2012-11-16 Thread Stephen P. King
ng-list@googlegroups.com> *Time:* 2012-11-15, 16:46:15 *Subject:* Re: Emergence of Properties On 11/15/2012 11:27 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Stephen P. King But many minds are in agreement that God exists, so that must be true ? Hi Roger, In my proposed d

Re: Re: Emergence of Properties

2012-11-16 Thread Roger Clough
everything-list Time: 2012-11-15, 16:46:15 Subject: Re: Emergence of Properties On 11/15/2012 11:27 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Stephen P. King But many minds are in agreement that God exists, so that must be true ? Hi Roger, In my proposed definitions, "must" only follows if and

Re: Emergence of Properties

2012-11-15 Thread Stephen P. King
On 11/15/2012 11:27 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Stephen P. King But many minds are in agreement that God exists, so that must be true ? Hi Roger, In my proposed definitions, "must" only follows if and only if there is no accessible possible world where a contraindication of the agreement

Re: Re: Emergence of Properties

2012-11-15 Thread Roger Clough
following content - From: Stephen P. King Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-11-03, 12:31:14 Subject: Re: Emergence of Properties On 11/3/2012 8:57 AM, Roger Clough wrote: The properties of spacetime things are what can be measured (ie facts). The properties of beyond spacetime

Re: Emergence of Properties

2012-11-05 Thread meekerdb
On 11/5/2012 12:51 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 11/5/2012 1:19 PM, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Stephen P. King In the end, we must accept a truth, so in the end, all truth is pragmatic. We must cast our own vote. Dear Roger, Are you familiar with Kenneth Arrow's impossibility theorem

Re: Re: Emergence of Properties

2012-11-05 Thread Roger Clough
everything-list Time: 2012-11-05, 13:51:48 Subject: Re: Emergence of Properties On 11/5/2012 1:19 PM, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Stephen P. King In the end, we must accept a truth, so in the end, all truth is pragmatic. We must cast our own vote. Dear Roger, Are you familiar with Kenne

Re: Re: Emergence of Properties

2012-11-05 Thread Roger Clough
Stephen P. King Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-11-05, 13:43:57 Subject: Re: Emergence of Properties On 11/5/2012 1:17 PM, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Stephen P. King I have no problem with that, although I do think that there are some eternal truths external to those minds.

Re: Re: Emergence of Properties

2012-11-05 Thread Roger Clough
time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Stephen P. King Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-11-03, 13:35:50 Subject: Re: Emergence of Properties On 11/3/2012 9:18 AM, Roger Clough wrote: > Yes, Aristotle's substances an

Re: Emergence of Properties

2012-11-05 Thread Stephen P. King
On 11/5/2012 1:19 PM, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Stephen P. King In the end, we must accept a truth, so in the end, all truth is pragmatic. We must cast our own vote. Dear Roger, Are you familiar with Kenneth Arrow's impossibility theorem

Re: Emergence of Properties

2012-11-05 Thread Stephen P. King
erything-list <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com> *Time:* 2012-11-03, 13:31:14 *Subject:* Re: Emergence of Properties On 11/3/2012 8:57 AM, Roger Clough wrote: The properties of spacetime things are what can be measured (ie facts). The properties of beyond spacetime

Re: Re: Emergence of Properties

2012-11-05 Thread Roger Clough
--- From: Stephen P. King Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-11-03, 13:31:14 Subject: Re: Emergence of Properties On 11/3/2012 8:57 AM, Roger Clough wrote: The properties of spacetime things are what can be measured (ie facts). The properties of beyond spacetime things are propositions tha

Re: Re: Emergence of Properties

2012-11-05 Thread Roger Clough
From: Stephen P. King Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-11-03, 13:31:14 Subject: Re: Emergence of Properties On 11/3/2012 8:57 AM, Roger Clough wrote: The properties of spacetime things are what can be measured (ie facts). The properties of beyond spacetime things are propositions tha

Re: Emergence of Properties

2012-11-04 Thread Stephen P. King
eived itself at the center of its own universe. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 11/4/2012 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Stephen P. King Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-11-03, 13:26:12 Subjec

Re: Re: Emergence of Properties

2012-11-04 Thread Roger Clough
ver: everything-list Time: 2012-11-03, 13:26:12 Subject: Re: Emergence of Properties On 11/3/2012 8:22 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 03 Nov 2012, at 12:17, Stephen P. King wrote: ?? After I wrote the above I can see how you would think of properties as being innate, I meant independe

Re: Emergence of Properties

2012-11-03 Thread Stephen P. King
On 11/3/2012 9:18 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Yes, Aristotle's substances and their properties do not change with time. But Leibniz's do very rapidly. And they are individual to each substance, meaning to each monad (from his aspect). The actual properties are collective data of the universe. Hi R

Re: Emergence of Properties

2012-11-03 Thread Stephen P. King
On 11/3/2012 8:57 AM, Roger Clough wrote: The properties of spacetime things are what can be measured (ie facts). The properties of beyond spacetime things are propositions that can't be contradicted (necessary truths). Hi Roger, I do not assume that the "can't be contradicted" is an a pri

Re: Re: Emergence of Properties

2012-11-03 Thread Roger Clough
er Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 11/3/2012 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-11-03, 08:22:27 Subject: Re: Emergence of Properties On 03 Nov 2012, at 12:

Re: Re: Emergence of Properties

2012-11-03 Thread Roger Clough
en P. King Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-11-03, 07:20:37 Subject: Re: Emergence of Properties On 11/3/2012 5:26 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > The arithmetical property of numbers are innate to the numbers, logic > and the laws we assume. Hi, This paper might be interesting

Re: Re: Emergence of Properties

2012-11-03 Thread Roger Clough
ar the end." -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Stephen P. King Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-11-03, 07:17:58 Subject: Re: Emergence of Properties On 11/3/2012 5:26 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: The arithmetical property of numbers are innate to the

Re: Emergence of Properties

2012-11-03 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 03 Nov 2012, at 12:17, Stephen P. King wrote: On 11/3/2012 5:26 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: The arithmetical property of numbers are innate to the numbers, logic and the laws we assume. Dear Bruno, How? How are properties innate? This idea makes no sense to me, it never has as it do

Re: Emergence of Properties

2012-11-03 Thread Stephen P. King
On 11/3/2012 5:26 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: The arithmetical property of numbers are innate to the numbers, logic and the laws we assume. Hi, This paper might be interesting to any one that would like to see a nice discussion of who it is that we come to understand numbers: http://web.medi

Re: Emergence of Properties

2012-11-03 Thread Stephen P. King
On 11/3/2012 5:26 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: The arithmetical property of numbers are innate to the numbers, logic and the laws we assume. Dear Bruno, How? How are properties innate? This idea makes no sense to me, it never has as it does not allow for any explanation of apprehension of p

Re: Emergence of Properties

2012-11-03 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 02 Nov 2012, at 20:48, Stephen P. King wrote: On 11/2/2012 12:23 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: How can anything emerge from something having non properties? Magic? Dear Bruno, Why do you consider "magic" as a potential answer to your question? After thinking about your question while I

Re: Emergence of Properties

2012-11-02 Thread Stephen P. King
On 11/2/2012 12:23 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: How can anything emerge from something having non properties? Magic? Dear Bruno, Why do you consider "magic" as a potential answer to your question? After thinking about your question while I was waiting to pick up my daughter from school, it o