On 30/06/09 01:39, Bill Nottingham wrote:
That's a really crappy place for that message, though. What's the user
supposed to do there... reboot and then go download another 700MB - 4GB?
Yes it's a crappy place. I knew that when I suggested it. I just couldn't
think of a Javascript hack which
On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 12:16 PM, Glen Turnerg...@gdt.id.au wrote:
On 30/06/09 01:39, Bill Nottingham wrote:
That's a really crappy place for that message, though. What's the user
supposed to do there... reboot and then go download another 700MB - 4GB?
Yes it's a crappy place. I knew that
Glen Turner (g...@gdt.id.au) said:
That's a really crappy place for that message, though. What's the user
supposed to do there... reboot and then go download another 700MB - 4GB?
Yes it's a crappy place. I knew that when I suggested it. I just couldn't
think of a Javascript hack which would
On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 5:43 PM, Bill Nottinghamnott...@redhat.com wrote:
Glen Turner (g...@gdt.id.au) said:
That's a really crappy place for that message, though. What's the user
supposed to do there... reboot and then go download another 700MB - 4GB?
Yes it's a crappy place. I knew that when
On 01/07/09 00:22, inode0 wrote:
snip
So if the community agreed to these two changes, which seem reasonable
to me, then what? Well, I think at this point we hit the real wall in
this debate, but I really don't think we can avoid the subsequent
requests for more equal treatment by refusing to
Bill Nottingham wrote:
1) You argue that the name 'Desktop' makes people think that it contains
*all possible desktops*.
I'm arguing that people will either think that or (more likely) that GNOME
is the only possible desktop (a misconception which the featuring the
GNOME desktop small print
Bill Nottingham wrote:
1) You argue that the name 'Desktop' makes people think that it contains
*all possible desktops*.
I'm arguing that people will either think that or (more likely) that GNOME
is the only possible desktop (a misconception which the featuring the
GNOME desktop small print
2009/6/30 Kevin Kofler kevin.kof...@chello.at:
Seth Vidal wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jun 2009, R P Herrold wrote:
umm -- trying to boot and install the x86_86 image on a i686 unit returns
basically the same under Anaconda's kernel
which is why i686 isos are the ones users get by default.
...
Kevin Kofler (kevin.kof...@chello.at) said:
Chris Adams wrote:
ISTR FESCo voted that down.
They voted it down based on false assumptions, such as the one from Bill
Nottingham (the one that it doesn't make any actual difference,
You know, I realize we may not agree. But I'd appreciate it
On Tue, 30 Jun 2009, Kevin Kofler wrote:
Chris Adams wrote:
ISTR FESCo voted that down.
They voted it down based on false assumptions, such as the one from Bill
Nottingham (the one that it doesn't make any actual difference, which was
also Seth Vidal's main argument) I just rectified in
Bill Nottingham wrote:
17:33:02 notting The current naming misleads users into either thinking
GNOME is the only available desktop environment in Fedora or thinking the
image also provides the other options. - i don't really think either of
these are accurate
Well, I don't see how that's not
Seth Vidal wrote:
It really wasn't my main argument. My main argument was that we need a
default no matter what and that adding 'GNOME' to the label doesn't change
anything
If it doesn't change anything, why can't we add it? That argument doesn't
make sense.
and adds to the confusion of new
On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Kevin Koflerkevin.kof...@chello.at wrote:
Seth Vidal wrote:
It really wasn't my main argument. My main argument was that we need a
default no matter what and that adding 'GNOME' to the label doesn't change
anything
If it doesn't change anything, why can't we
Kevin Kofler (kevin.kof...@chello.at) said:
The thing is, any moment is as good as any other to file a proposal to
FESCo, I don't see why I *shouldn't* have filed it now.
I wasn't asking as a means of making an argument against it. I'm asking
because this is something that could have been
Hi Kevin,
It was because you (plural) didn't want to listen to my
arguments, you were just eager to shoot my proposal down no
matter what.
I think this is your 60th post to this thread, in the four days that
it's been going. I don't have anything to say about the thread
itself, but
Matthew Garrett wrote:
But when we talk about Fedora features, we're not talking about
packaging updates.
But all this focus on Fedora features is what I'm objecting to in the
first place. Users care about what features are there, not about who wrote
them. Yet I don't see us filling in feature
Matthias Clasen wrote:
Now I guess it would be my turn to feel insulted, and stamp my foot,
because I do the majority of the stable Gnome updates. And yes, they do
exist.
At the rate of one update per month to every GNOME package?
Kevin Kofler
--
fedora-devel-list mailing list
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
nm-applet doesn't work the KDE Wallet for example. This is exactly what
I mean by lack of integration.
That's why we're switching to the plasmoid. :-)
And how is this relevant to the user? The user cares about what features
they're getting, not who has written the code
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
The constructiveness if for KDE SIG and individuals to accept that his
claim of perfect integration is silly when there are many gaps to
address.
Those gaps are not integration issues. They're just features which GNOME
happens to have.
I have no problems with that
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 5:15 PM, Kevin Koflerkevin.kof...@chello.at wrote:
This x86_64 issue is also a nasty side effect of your design policy: why are
we defaulting to reduced performance for the vast majority of new hardware
(basically only netbooks and a handful pretty specialized devices
2009/6/29 Eric Springer erik...@gmail.com:
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 5:15 PM, Kevin Koflerkevin.kof...@chello.at wrote:
This x86_64 issue is also a nasty side effect of your design policy: why are
we defaulting to reduced performance for the vast majority of new hardware
(basically only
On 06/29/2009 12:54 PM, Kevin Kofler wrote:
The user does not care, so why present things to the user as if they should?
I said nothing about users. You should as a Fedora developer care about
integration with leading edge features that makes Fedora stand out.
You're calling things
2009/6/29 Michal Hlavinka mhlav...@redhat.com:
On Friday 26 June 2009 20:50:58 Jon Stanley wrote:
...
18:42:08 Kevin_Kofler Sweeping them under the carpet is bad.
18:42:16 Kevin_Kofler I also hate how x86_64 is being hidden.
18:42:21 nirik presenting them all on the top page is also fail.
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 09:22:44AM +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote:
Matthias Clasen wrote:
Now I guess it would be my turn to feel insulted, and stamp my foot,
because I do the majority of the stable Gnome updates. And yes, they do
exist.
At the rate of one update per month to every GNOME package?
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 10:49 PM, Kevin Kofler wrote:
That said, it's possible to improve over their design, in particular by
adding links to info pages about the desktops and 32 vs. 64 bit right next
to the respective choice. But removing choice is not an improvement.
What if the user was
Josh Boyer wrote:
It is not obvious to me without seeing comparison data as to why it's such
a good thing to have numerous stable updates.
It's a good thing because those updates fix bugs, update translations and in
some cases add features.
Kevin Kofler
--
fedora-devel-list mailing
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 3:07 PM, Kevin Koflerkevin.kof...@chello.at wrote:
Josh Boyer wrote:
It is not obvious to me without seeing comparison data as to why it's such
a good thing to have numerous stable updates.
It's a good thing because those updates fix bugs, update translations and in
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
I find it amusing that you won't even agree that shipping nm-applet in KDE
results is a gap in integration. This was a result of the KDE 3 - KDE 4
migration.
It was actually a result of the NM 0.6 - 0.7 migration. The KDE 3 - KDE 4
migration just made it worse by
Bastien Nocera wrote:
I'm sure that a KDE hacker with access to a supported fingerprint reader
could implement the enrollment facility within an afternoon.
There's already an implementation:
http://blog.djaara.net/wordpress/2009/
That's a student from Brno, ltinkl and jreznik know him
On Saturday, June 27 2009, Kevin Kofler said:
* fixing comps so task-oriented groups like SoundVideo aren't biased
towards GNOME apps (this most likely requires extending the comps format or
having separate comps-kde and comps-gnome - I think extending the format to
handle conditionals based
On 06/29/2009 07:20 PM, Jaroslav Reznik wrote:
The biggest issue is lack of communication from the only right Desktop - we
can't catch changes if these changes are communicated to community too late.
Lot of new free desktop techs come from Fedora and we know it and we're
working really
On Mon, 2009-06-29 at 15:15 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote:
Bastien Nocera wrote:
I'm sure that a KDE hacker with access to a supported fingerprint reader
could implement the enrollment facility within an afternoon.
There's already an implementation:
http://blog.djaara.net/wordpress/2009/
Niels Haase (a...@fedoraproject.org) said:
Magical can be: Shows up a list at the installer where you can chose
from Gnome or KDE (both on the same line with no default activation)
and on the next line an alternative environment, here you have thinks
like E17, XFCE, LXDE ... But you only the
On Monday 29 June 2009 17:12:42 Bastien Nocera wrote:
On Mon, 2009-06-29 at 15:15 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote:
Bastien Nocera wrote:
I'm sure that a KDE hacker with access to a supported fingerprint
reader could implement the enrollment facility within an afternoon.
There's already an
Kevin Kofler (kevin.kof...@chello.at) said:
It's not a default if you're providing a choice.
I see no reason why we can't provide a choice of 2 desktops.
Because giving people a choice when they can't possibly make a good
informed decision is horrible UI.
If you've got someone new to
Kevin Kofler (kevin.kof...@chello.at) said:
The word representative contains represent. You're supposed to represent
the opinions of the people who elected you, not just your own.
...
Kevin Kofler (kevin.kof...@chello.at) said:
I'm
not going to vote against my electoral promises nor
Niels Haase (a...@fedoraproject.org) said:
Is there any info message telling user something like: You are installing
32bit system on 64bit hardware. Consider using 64bit system for better
performance?
AFAIK not in Fedora, if I remember me correctly, the SuSE installer
shows up such a
On Mon, 29 Jun 2009, Bill Nottingham wrote:
That's a really crappy place for that message, though. What's the user
supposed to do there... reboot and then go download another 700MB - 4GB?
umm -- trying to boot and install the x86_86 image on a i686
unit returns basically the same under
On Mon, 29 Jun 2009, Orcan Ogetbil wrote:
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 11:51 AM, Bill Nottingham wrote:
Kevin Kofler said:
It's not a default if you're providing a choice.
I see no reason why we can't provide a choice of 2 desktops.
Because giving people a choice when they can't possibly
2009/6/29 Seth Vidal skvi...@fedoraproject.org:
On Mon, 29 Jun 2009, R P Herrold wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jun 2009, Bill Nottingham wrote:
That's a really crappy place for that message, though. What's the user
supposed to do there... reboot and then go download another 700MB - 4GB?
umm --
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 12:31:59PM -0500, Matthew Woehlke wrote:
I love how the other side keeps ignoring that we have a
chicken-and-egg situation here.
We have two problems:
1. Fedora has trouble attracting KDE developers.
2. Fedora presents Gnome as better.
Okay, it's been argued into
Matthew Garrett wrote:
That's certainly an argument, though it's a harder one to make - it's
not easy to show that changing #1 will result in #2 changing. However,
it is easy to argue that treating KDE as equivalent to Gnome without
having equivalent developer resources causes some level of
Bill Nottingham wrote:
If you've got someone new to Fedora, and they go to the page, asking
them to choose between Mumble and Frotz (and Moof, and Wobble), with
no other data (as exists right now on get-fedora, or even on the OpenSUSE
page), there's no way they can make a useful decision, and
Bill Nottingham wrote:
So, if someone from the XFCE Sig voted for you, you're not going to
represent any of their opinions which are against your KDE-centric
views?
How am I to know that they voted for me?
It makes sense to take a mailing list consensus into account, but not a
random single
Seth Vidal wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jun 2009, R P Herrold wrote:
umm -- trying to boot and install the x86_86 image on a i686 unit returns
basically the same under Anaconda's kernel
which is why i686 isos are the ones users get by default.
... which is bad. Users should get the x86_64 version
Once upon a time, Kevin Kofler kevin.kof...@chello.at said:
But why can't it say GNOME Desktop Edition?
ISTR FESCo voted that down. How about moving on to something more
productive?
--
Chris Adams cmad...@hiwaay.net
Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services
I don't speak
Bill Nottingham wrote:
That's a really crappy place for that message, though. What's the user
supposed to do there... reboot and then go download another 700MB - 4GB?
Sure, why not? If they haven't figured out what CPU they have by then (and
we should make it easy for them by providing an
Once upon a time, Kevin Kofler kevin.kof...@chello.at said:
Sure, why not? If they haven't figured out what CPU they have by then (and
we should make it easy for them by providing an information page listing
common 32-bit and 64-bit CPUs linked on the download page), they learn
their lesson.
A lot of users think they have a Dell CPU. The result of giving them
one that doesn't work will be try something else before you download
Fedora.
I completely agree, I told my father on the phone just today to open
his web browser as I was helping him deal with some wireless issues
and he had
2009/6/27 Jon Stanley jonstan...@gmail.com:
On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 6:25 PM, Adam Millermaxamill...@gmail.com wrote:
If it is official, I think it should at least get placed on the same
web page as the gnome/default one like it used to.
+1
We're well aware that the current download page is
2009/6/28 Rahul Sundaram sunda...@fedoraproject.org:
On 06/28/2009 12:40 PM, Thomas Janssen wrote:
I might understand it wrong. But from my point of view. It's not
newbie oriented at all. If it would be newbie oriented it would offer
information and give options to choose, included with some
On 06/28/2009 01:43 PM, Thomas Janssen wrote:
There is already a website team.
But before i will join them or work with them together, i read a lot
and try to find out what will happen. And i doubt it was the website
team who made the decision how ugly (sorry just IMO) and poor it looks
like.
2009/6/28 drago01 drag...@gmail.com:
On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 11:27 PM, Niels Haasea...@fedoraproject.org wrote:
2009/6/27 Kevin Fenzi ke...@scrye.com:
I never know where to reply to these sort of threads... but I guess I
will pick here. ;)
On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 19:44:48 -0500
inode0
On 06/28/2009 03:35 PM, Niels Haase wrote:
GNOME KDE - official support from fedora (first class citizen)
XFCE - spin only (second class citizen)
LXDE - remix only (third class citizen)
Just my two pennies worth.
Xfce and LXDE are in the central repository and maintained well by the
2009/6/28 Rahul Sundaram sunda...@fedoraproject.org:
On 06/28/2009 03:35 PM, Niels Haase wrote:
GNOME KDE - official support from fedora (first class citizen)
XFCE - spin only (second class citizen)
LXDE - remix only (third class citizen)
Just my two pennies worth.
Xfce and LXDE are in
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
None of this is going to change with a FESCo vote. What it requires is
someone interested in working with the websites team.
The websites team has told me that using Desktop Edition as the name was a
FESCo decision, that's why I brought up the name change in FESCo.
Can we
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
The difference between features like a desktop globe and things like
NetworkManager is obvious.
I know NM is important, and in fact that's why we have been shipping the
mature NM-gnome in KDE spins so far, and it does work fine in KDE. And
chances are good for the native
Am Sonntag, den 28.06.2009, 15:21 +0200 schrieb Kevin Kofler:
Core desktop infrastructure like flickerfree boot which is SARCASMsurely
worlds more useful and important to people/SARCASM than a desktop globe
with OpenStreetMap integration providing Free as in Speech street-level
maps and place
Am Sonntag, den 28.06.2009, 15:29 +0200 schrieb drago01:
+---+
| [*] Fedora Live, featuring the GNOME Desktop |
+---+
| [] Fedora Live KDE Edition|
| [] Fedora Live XFCE Edition
On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 03:09:26PM +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote:
Niels Haase wrote:
GNOME KDE - official support from fedora (first class citizen)
XFCE - spin only (second class citizen)
LXDE - remix only (third class citizen)
It's actually worse than that:
GNOME - presented on the main download
Josh Boyer wrote:
The Desktop (or Gnome) and KDE spins are both primary spins hosted on the
master mirror and mirrored worldwide. It is also very apparent on the
main download page. If your only classification for being treated as a
'secondary cititzen' is that there is a big button you have
Thomas Janssen wrote:
Not really. Why not the same name for gnome as for the other spins.
And why not give the user finally information and screenshots of what
they get, for every spin? Why still treat the user as if he's dumb and
need you to decide what he want. Give him enough information
Rahul, I question the point of ... making laundry lists of pros, cons, bugs
of desktop X vs Y... I'm sure folks can come up with a similar list of
gnome (or other) related negative items, or kde-only features too but I
question it's constructiveness.
My only comments here:
1. The desktop
On Sun, 28 Jun 2009, Christopher Stone wrote:
Whatever desktop RH employees are paid to work on to satisfy their
biggest RHEL customers needs. Or what they *think* their biggest RHEL
customers want.
I think the question you need to ask is why they must force this onto
the Fedora
2009/6/28 Christopher Stone
I think the question you need to ask is why they must force this onto
the Fedora *community* OS when the community is clearly objecting to
it.
The *community* is not objecting to it - just parts of it. and only recently
- a year ago, the KDE desktop was ion no
On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 03:09:26PM +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote:
Niels Haase wrote:
GNOME KDE - official support from fedora (first class citizen)
XFCE - spin only (second class citizen)
LXDE - remix only (third class citizen)
It's actually worse than that:
GNOME - presented on the main
Rahul, I question the point of ... making laundry lists of pros, cons, bugs
of desktop X vs Y... I'm sure folks can come up with a similar list of
gnome (or other) related negative items, or kde-only features too but I
question it's constructiveness.
My only comments here:
1. The desktop
On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 1:22 PM, Seth Vidal wrote:
On Sun, 28 Jun 2009, Christopher Stone wrote:
Whatever desktop RH employees are paid to work on to satisfy their
biggest RHEL customers needs. Or what they *think* their biggest RHEL
customers want.
I think the question you need to ask
Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) wrote:
1. The desktop spin *is* gnome for cryin out loud. Seriously, common
sense is just screaming in my head to call a spade a spade.
We have a Desktop team. So IMHO the default desktop is what they
decide it to be.
They are currently focused only on Gnome.
Seth Vidal wrote:
I think we have a handful of vocal opponents.
Where have you seen a hand with thousands of fingers? ;-)
luckily we don't have to implement every whim that the majority or
a vocal group yells about.
If you go against the wishes of the majority, that's per definition
2009/6/28 Orcan Ogetbil oget.fed...@gmail.com:
On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 1:22 PM, Seth Vidal wrote:
On Sun, 28 Jun 2009, Christopher Stone wrote:
Whatever desktop RH employees are paid to work on to satisfy their
biggest RHEL customers needs. Or what they *think* their biggest RHEL
On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 20:20:27 +0200
Kevin Kofler kevin.kof...@chello.at wrote:
Seth Vidal wrote:
I think we have a handful of vocal opponents.
Where have you seen a hand with thousands of fingers? ;-)
luckily we don't have to implement every whim that the majority or
a vocal group
2009/6/28 Matthew Garrett m...@redhat.com:
On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 03:09:26PM +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote:
Niels Haase wrote:
GNOME KDE - official support from fedora (first class citizen)
XFCE - spin only (second class citizen)
LXDE - remix only (third class citizen)
It's actually worse
On Sun, 28 Jun 2009, Kevin Kofler wrote:
Seth Vidal wrote:
I think we have a handful of vocal opponents.
Where have you seen a hand with thousands of fingers? ;-)
luckily we don't have to implement every whim that the majority or
a vocal group yells about.
If you go against the wishes
On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Christopher
Stonechris.st...@gmail.com wrote:
Whatever desktop RH employees are paid to work on to satisfy their
biggest RHEL customers needs. Or what they *think* their biggest RHEL
customers want.
I think the question you need to ask is why they must force
On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 12:22 PM, Adam Millermaxamill...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Christopher
Stonechris.st...@gmail.com wrote:
Whatever desktop RH employees are paid to work on to satisfy their
biggest RHEL customers needs. Or what they *think* their biggest RHEL
On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 7:03 AM, Kevin Koflerkevin.kof...@chello.at wrote:
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
None of this is going to change with a FESCo vote. What it requires is
someone interested in working with the websites team.
The websites team has told me that using Desktop Edition as the name
On 06/28/2009 01:12 PM, Seth Vidal wrote:
2. I've yet to see this majority you speak of.
Here I am, part of the silent KDE-users majority, who uses Fedora
because it provides great KDE experience. I am frustrated however by the
fact that even finding Fedora KDE download page is experience
On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 8:29 AM, drago01drag...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 3:09 PM, Kevin Koflerkevin.kof...@chello.at wrote:
Niels Haase wrote:
GNOME KDE - official support from fedora (first class citizen)
XFCE - spin only (second class citizen)
LXDE - remix only (third class
Matthew Garrett wrote:
The reality is that KDE *is* a second class citizen in Fedora - it
doesn't get anywhere near the attention that Gnome does.
SARCASMThanks/SARCASM for insulting our (KDE SIG's) work yet again,
that's SARCASMreally appreciated/SARCASM! :-/
Where are the monthly bugfix
On 2009-06-28 03:29:52 PM, drago01 wrote:
+---+
| [*] Fedora Live, featuring the GNOME Desktop |
+---+
| [] Fedora Live KDE Edition|
| [] Fedora Live XFCE Edition |
Arjan van de Ven wrote:
I always thought of Fedora being more of a meritocracy than a
democracy.
or in other words code / effort talks more than words.
The code / effort is what we're doing in KDE SIG. All I'm asking for is
for that work to be accurately represented in places like the
Am Sonntag, den 28.06.2009, 13:45 -0700 schrieb Christopher Stone:
Because they are focusing their efforts in the wrong place. They
should be helping KDE, not GNOME! GNOME is a dying if not dead
desktop. It can barely hold its own as a default install on Fedora!
The sooner RH employees
On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 11:45 PM, Julian
Aloofijulian.fedorali...@googlemail.com wrote:
Am Sonntag, den 28.06.2009, 13:45 -0700 schrieb Christopher Stone:
Because they are focusing their efforts in the wrong place. They
should be helping KDE, not GNOME! GNOME is a dying if not dead
desktop.
Dariusz J. Garbowski schrieb:
On 06/28/2009 01:12 PM, Seth Vidal wrote:
2. I've yet to see this majority you speak of.
Here I am, part of the silent KDE-users majority, who uses Fedora
because it provides great KDE experience. I am frustrated however by the
fact that even finding Fedora
Just look at the page of openSUSE:
http://software.opensuse.org/
openSUSE is more targetet at newbies than Fedora is, and reading through
their forums I don't see many people who are confused by this page, they
always have a little Help button if they don't understand a certain
point. And if
On Sun, 28 Jun 2009, Kevin Kofler wrote:
Seth Vidal wrote:
So at no point do we stop arguing and allow decisions to be made? You just
keep screaming and hurling invectives until you get your way? What sort of
system is that? Rule by tantrum?
In this case, additional feedback was gained
Naheem Zaffar wrote:
The *community* is not objecting to it - just parts of it. and only
recently - a year ago, the KDE desktop was ion no shape to be considered
the primary desktop.
KDE 4.0.3 (which is the first KDE 4 version Fedora shipped) worked just fine
for daily use, I used it on my
On Sun, 2009-06-28 at 20:20 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote:
Seth Vidal wrote:
I think we have a handful of vocal opponents.
Where have you seen a hand with thousands of fingers? ;-)
luckily we don't have to implement every whim that the majority or
a vocal group yells about.
If you go
Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) wrote:
We have a Desktop team.
That's just yet another syndrom of the misnomer disease, though it's not
easy to change because that team is part of RH, not Fedora.
So IMHO the default desktop is what they decide it to be.
Nonsense. The Desktop Team is an internal
Adam Miller wrote:
RedHat employees are paid to work on Fedora, why would anyone scoff at
their contributions to the project? Would it be more acceptable if
someone from Intel or Dell were developing and contributing to Fedora
and backing Gnome?
This is a community and we are fortunate
On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 11:35:07PM +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote:
Matthew Garrett wrote:
The reality is that KDE *is* a second class citizen in Fedora - it
doesn't get anywhere near the attention that Gnome does.
SARCASMThanks/SARCASM for insulting our (KDE SIG's) work yet again,
that's
Ricky Zhou wrote:
We choose one group to target more than the others, and that group is
new users that don't know what to choose. We direct those new users at
the default and most common download instead of throwing choices at
them.
The thing is, that's exactly the type of design GNOME is
Matthew Garrett wrote:
Where are the monthly bugfix updates of the entirety of GNOME in the
stable updates? Where are the updates to minor feature releases? Oh wait,
they don't exist! Yet we provide all this for KDE! We even provide a
semi-official unstable repository (at kde-redhat) with the
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 01:54:37AM +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote:
Matthew Garrett wrote:
I think you're using the wrong metric here.
I'm just pointing out that we're providing services the GNOME packagers
aren't providing. And those are packaging-level services which I consider
to be an
On Sun, 2009-06-28 at 23:35 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote:
Matthew Garrett wrote:
The reality is that KDE *is* a second class citizen in Fedora - it
doesn't get anywhere near the attention that Gnome does.
SARCASMThanks/SARCASM for insulting our (KDE SIG's) work yet again,
that's
Matthias Clasen wrote:
On Sun, 2009-06-28 at 23:35 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote:
Matthew Garrett wrote:
The reality is that KDE *is* a second class citizen in Fedora - it
doesn't get anywhere near the attention that Gnome does.
SARCASMThanks/SARCASM for insulting our (KDE SIG's) work yet
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 01:21:15AM +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote:
Dave Airlie wrote:
If we were being democratic, i.e. proper majority rule, we'd kick KDE
out of the distro as its definitely not 50% of developers or users.
That assumes that the people who are not using KDE want it kicked out.
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 04:09:39AM +0200, Neil Thompson wrote:
Personally I think that kicking KDE out would be a good idea if it would get
rid of all the KDE fanbois and fanboi-type shrill argumentation.
That's unnecessary. The people involved in this discussion have
contributed a lot to
On 2009-06-29 01:13:07 AM, Kevin Kofler wrote:
The thing is, that's exactly the type of design GNOME is using and KDE is
rejecting, so you will never get KDE people to approve of this. And thus
following that policy makes our download page look biased and uninviting to
KDE users.
Sorry, but
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