On May 28, 2010, at 9:57 PM, Christopher Smith wrote:
The other thing that is structurally very cool (hah!) about West Side
Story is that the whole thing is based around the tritone interval...
Many of the tunes use the tritone melodically in prominent position.
In my youth, I used the
On Sat May 29, at SaturdayMay 29 10:02 AM, Andrew Stiller wrote:
On May 28, 2010, at 9:57 PM, Christopher Smith wrote:
The other thing that is structurally very cool (hah!) about West
Side Story is that the whole thing is based around the tritone
interval... Many of the tunes use the
of
B-A-C-H
(transposed) so I do.
Guy Hayden
-Original Message-
From: finale-boun...@shsu.edu [mailto:finale-boun...@shsu.edu] On
Behalf Of
Christopher Smith
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 9:57 PM
To: finale@shsu.edu
Subject: Re: [Finale] O.T. Secco recitatives
On Fri May 28, at FridayMay
Also, Somewhere (There's a place for us) begins with a minor 7th.
Guy Hayden
-Original Message-
From: finale-boun...@shsu.edu [mailto:finale-boun...@shsu.edu] On Behalf Of
Andrew Stiller
Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 10:02 AM
To: finale@shsu.edu
Subject: Re: [Finale] O.T. Secco
On May 29, 2010, at 7:02 AM, Andrew Stiller wrote:
In my youth, I used the beginning of Maria to help my sight
singing of tritones, and I've also pointed it out to others for the
same purpose
I did that, too, but only for augmented fourths, not diminished
fifths. Even if they sound the
On May 27, 2010, at 6:14 PM, Neal Gittleman wrote:
Going back to Kim's original question (sort of), regardless of when
secco recits died out, the technique was still used at least as
late as Stravinsky's The Rake's Progress, though, of course,
that's a special case.
I don't think it's
On May 27, 2010, at 12:06 PM, Ray Horton wrote:
I agree. I remember a music history teacher saying that Schoenberg
taught film composers in LA, but I never came across names. I
believe that Korngold and Waxman were students of his, but earlier,
in Europe.
I think you're confusing
Mark D Lew wrote:
On May 27, 2010, at 12:06 PM, Ray Horton wrote:
I agree. I remember a music history teacher saying that Schoenberg
taught film composers in LA, but I never came across names. I
believe that Korngold and Waxman were students of his, but earlier,
in Europe.
I think you're
On 28 May 2010 at 10:45, Ray Horton wrote:
I got the Korngold and Waxman from some non-trustworthy internet
source (imagine that!) and the music lit teacher was an inspiring type
but wasn't always clean with his facts. I was trying to give support
for D. Fenton's thesis with muddy facts in
At 10:56 AM -0400 5/28/10, David W. Fenton wrote:
They may not have physically studied with Schoenberg, et al., but the
film composers in Hollywood definitely studied and absorbed many
aspects of the sound (if not the specific techniques) of then-avant
garde composers, and used them in film. I
Ray Horton wrote:
OK. I got the Korngold and Waxman from some non-trustworthy internet
source (imagine that!)
I'd be curious to see that, if you still have the link. The old-world
connections of early film composers (particularly the opera-film connection) is
a topic of interest and casual
Didn't Frank Comstock write arrangements for the Les Brown Band?
Dalvin Boone
-Original Message-
From: finale-boun...@shsu.edu [mailto:finale-boun...@shsu.edu] On Behalf Of
John Howell
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 1:24 PM
To: finale@shsu.edu
Subject: Re: [Finale] O.T. Secco recitatives
write arrangements for the Les Brown Band?
Dalvin Boone
-Original Message-
From: finale-boun...@shsu.edu [mailto:finale-boun...@shsu.edu] On
Behalf Of
John Howell
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 1:24 PM
To: finale@shsu.edu
Subject: Re: [Finale] O.T. Secco recitatives
At 10:56 AM -0400 5/28/10
On Fri May 28, at FridayMay 28 4:15 PM, Glen Daum wrote:
He did a fair amount of film scoring, not so much as a composer
under his own name but as an orchestrator and arranger, primarily
for Warner Bros. A great example of his brilliance there is the
Marian, the Librarian dance sequence
On May 27, 2010, at 6:06 PM, Christopher Smith wrote:
Now, the fugue from Cool in West Side Story, I would have to check
it again, but I think I remember that it is actually 12 tone. I might
be wrong, or maybe it just isn't strict, but I seem to have a
memory...
Christopher
I'm not
On Fri May 28, at FridayMay 28 9:10 PM, Andrew Stiller wrote:
On May 27, 2010, at 6:06 PM, Christopher Smith wrote:
Now, the fugue from Cool in West Side Story, I would have to
check it again, but I think I remember that it is actually 12
tone. I might be wrong, or maybe it just isn't
Andrew, I don't get this. I checked the vocal score (took me until
this morning) and although all 12 pitches occur at some point in this
piece, it is neither twelve-tone (as I understand it) nor atonal.
Am I missing something?
Christopher
On Wed May 26, at WednesdayMay 26 4:59 PM,
On 27 May 2010 at 8:11, Christopher Smith wrote:
Andrew, I don't get this. I checked the vocal score (took me until
this morning) and although all 12 pitches occur at some point in this
piece, it is neither twelve-tone (as I understand it) nor atonal.
Am I missing something?
In addition
Context can be a lot--people can handle and assimilate lots of music in movies
(or even opera) that they would never take in a straight concert setting. In my
experience this applies equally to Ligeti, Johann Strauss, and Richard Strauss.
ajr
David W. Fenton lists.fin...@dfenton.com
David W. Fenton wrote:
In addition to that, by the time The Fantasticks came out, there'd
been decades of film music that consciously borrowed the most
advanced musical techniques from avant garde composers. I am
convinced that the fact that this music became part of the vocabulary
of film
At 8:11 AM -0400 5/27/10, Christopher Smith wrote:
Andrew, I don't get this. I checked the vocal score (took me until
this morning) and although all 12 pitches occur at some point in
this piece, it is neither twelve-tone (as I understand it) nor
atonal.
Am I missing something?
My reaction
On Thu May 27, at ThursdayMay 27 3:28 PM, John Howell wrote:
At 8:11 AM -0400 5/27/10, Christopher Smith wrote:
Andrew, I don't get this. I checked the vocal score (took me until
this morning) and although all 12 pitches occur at some point in
this piece, it is neither twelve-tone (as I
Perhaps this is tonal in the manner of the later Gesualdo madrigals? or the
beginning of Liszt's Faust Symphony?
ajr
Christopher Smith christopher.sm...@videotron.ca wrote:
On Thu May 27, at ThursdayMay 27 3:28 PM, John Howell wrote:
At 8:11 AM -0400 5/27/10, Christopher Smith
Im not so sure this is the case-
in my experience the exposure young people have to advanced music in
films is in drips and drabs, used very sparingly--
it seemingly being used mainly, and almost solely in the capacity of
'sound effects', to alert the audience that someone is
On May 27, 2010, at 8:11 AM, Christopher Smith wrote:
I don't have the score, so I've relied on my ear--wh. admittedly may
err. It seems to me that up through a couple of deals before dawn, no
pitch is repeated, which would make 11. The next note (on when) is
so short I can't clearly pick
Not quite. In order, by measure
a e f c# d f (we've already seen f before)
d aflat anat (already seen d and a before)
c (couple of deals before)
d f# a
d
up to there, only 8 different pitches (missing g, eflat, b, bflat to
complete the series).
We get to the last missing pitch (E flat) on
Now, the fugue from Cool in West Side Story, I would have to check it
again, but I think I remember that it is actually 12 tone. I might be wrong,
or maybe it just isn't strict, but I seem to have a memory...
Certainly Bernstein is playing with the idea in the introduction to Quiet!
in Candide
Going back to Kim's original question (sort of), regardless of when
secco recits died out, the technique was still used at least as late
as Stravinsky's The Rake's Progress, though, of course, that's a
special case.
And FWIW, in my experience in the opera pit, the secco recits are
Kind of like the number with the atonal intro in The Fantasticks. A great way
to sneak atonality though to people who don't think they could ever like it.
ajr
Andrew Stiller kalli...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
On May 25, 2010, at 11:41 AM, Christopher Smith wrote:
What I meant to say,
with
recitative replacing the spoken dialogue. Not always the best choice.
Aaron J. Rabushka
arabus...@austin.rr.com
- Original Message -
From: Christopher Smith christopher.sm...@videotron.ca
To: finale@shsu.edu
Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 1:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Finale] O.T. Secco
At 10:40 PM -0400 5/24/10, Christopher Smith wrote:
On Mon May 24, at MondayMay 24 8:40 PM, John Howell wrote:
But he arbitrarily recast our Sky Masterson in Guys Dolls
without asking the music staff, and we got an air-head who couldn't
come close to his notes with radar!! And he was
On Tue May 25, at TuesdayMay 25 11:29 AM, John Howell wrote:
At 10:40 PM -0400 5/24/10, Christopher Smith wrote:
On Mon May 24, at MondayMay 24 8:40 PM, John Howell wrote:
But he arbitrarily recast our Sky Masterson in Guys Dolls
without asking the music staff, and we got an air-head who
On Sun May 23, at SundayMay 23 12:29 PM, John Howell wrote:
At 1:24 AM -0400 5/23/10, Kim Patrick Clow wrote:
Good day:
Some friends were asking me when did keyboard recitative stop in
opera? Although I'm not all that familiar with the romantic period, I
offered as a suggestion that they
On 24 May 2010 at 6:52, Christopher Smith wrote:
Your point about the music growing out of the story line is
even more reinforced by the use the of the verse in pre-WW2 musical
comedy. The verse was typically (though not always) rubato, and it is
WAY easier to accompany a rubato singer
At 6:52 AM -0400 5/24/10, Christopher Smith wrote:
This is probably going to be less that useless to Kim, but I wanted
to point out something interesting (to me, anyway) in your comments,
John. Your point about the music growing out of the story line is
even more reinforced by the use the of
On 24 May 2010 at 12:51, John Howell wrote:
I take
Oklahoma! as the tipping point, even though Showboat had tended
that way earlier (and significantly with the help of Hammerstein).
Hmm. The Showboat issue is quite complicated. There exist about 5
distinct versions of the show. It was
On Mon May 24, at MondayMay 24 12:58 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 24 May 2010 at 12:51, John Howell wrote:
I take
Oklahoma! as the tipping point, even though Showboat had tended
that way earlier (and significantly with the help of Hammerstein).
Hmm. The Showboat issue is quite
On Mon May 24, at MondayMay 24 12:51 PM, John Howell wrote:
Musicals like Oklahoma were trying even more to blur the line
between dialogue and song, with registers chosen to put some of
the singing in a similar area of the voice used in the dialogue,
I'm not sure I'd agree with the
On 24 May 2010 at 14:03, Christopher Smith wrote:
On Mon May 24, at MondayMay 24 12:58 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 24 May 2010 at 12:51, John Howell wrote:
I take
Oklahoma! as the tipping point, even though Showboat had tended
that way earlier (and significantly with the help of
On Mon May 24, at MondayMay 24 2:12 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
The major tweaks to the thing were explicitly described in the
Playbill of the 1994 Broadway production (which I saw with my parents
in 1995), and that production made a point of enhancing the racial
inequality aspect of the story
At 11:03 AM -0400 5/24/10, David W. Fenton wrote:
My point is that it's not quite as cut-and-dried in terms of the
keyboard player having the freedom to follow a wayward singer
indulging in rubato -- there's actually a much more complex musical
process going on where the continuo players and the
On 24 May 2010 at 15:48, John Howell wrote:
At 11:03 AM -0400 5/24/10, David W. Fenton wrote:
My point is that it's not quite as cut-and-dried in terms of the
keyboard player having the freedom to follow a wayward singer
indulging in rubato -- there's actually a much more complex musical
At 12:58 PM -0400 5/24/10, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 24 May 2010 at 12:51, John Howell wrote:
I take
Oklahoma! as the tipping point, even though Showboat had tended
that way earlier (and significantly with the help of Hammerstein).
Hmm. The Showboat issue is quite complicated. There exist
Showboat is said to be the first
Broadway musical with a through story line (as opposed to a loose
plot that barely holds together a bunch of songs that don't have much
to do with each other)
That may well be said, but I would differ. I think this is really just a
semantic distinction of what
On Mon May 24, at MondayMay 24 5:42 PM, John Howell wrote:
The movie versions are ALWAYS too different to do you any good.
Hah! I wish you could have had that conversation with this one
choreographer, who watched the movie for several of our semi-pro
productions and insisted that the
One thing that is always worth a giggle to me in the Wikipedia article
is the reference to African-Americans - in CANADA. I suppose the
politically-correct thing is to refer to geography rather than to
race, but the race IS the issue here, not the geography. I hear people
referring to
At 6:52 PM -0400 5/24/10, Christopher Smith wrote:
On Mon May 24, at MondayMay 24 5:42 PM, John Howell wrote:
The movie versions are ALWAYS too different to do you any good.
Hah! I wish you could have had that conversation with this one
choreographer, who watched the movie for several of
On May 22, 2010, at 10:24 PM, Kim Patrick Clow wrote:
Some friends were asking me when did keyboard recitative stop in
opera? ...
Rossini sounds approximately right to me, but it's not as simple as
that. Secco recitative generally fell out of fashion some time around
the 1820s but the
At 1:24 AM -0400 5/23/10, Kim Patrick Clow wrote:
Good day:
Some friends were asking me when did keyboard recitative stop in
opera? Although I'm not all that familiar with the romantic period, I
offered as a suggestion that they ended with Rossini? I've seen Norma
in a live performance, and the
Good day:
Some friends were asking me when did keyboard recitative stop in
opera? Although I'm not all that familiar with the romantic period, I
offered as a suggestion that they ended with Rossini? I've seen Norma
in a live performance, and the recitatives seemed to be completely
orchestrated. I
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