On 6/13/2011 8:39 PM, Yoshiki Ohshima wrote:
At Mon, 13 Jun 2011 17:16:10 -0400,
C. Scott Ananian wrote:
given that most non-Chinese can't read Chinese writing, despite that many of
these characters do actually resemble crude line-art drawings of various
things and ideas.
It is a common linguis
I think some recent work by Sean McDirmid may be of interest to the FoNC
audience.
Coding at the Speed of Touch
http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4257
This paper describes a programming language with a tile-based development
environment designed for use in tablets. The 'type system', such as it
On 14/06/2011, at 1:50 PM, C. Scott Ananian wrote:
>> When you're about to type the next "tile", you're given options... anything
>> outside of those options is impossible, so the computer doesn't put it in,
>> because syntactically it wouldn't make sense.
>
> There's nothing specific to tiles
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 11:17 PM, Julian Leviston wrote:
>> I think "Tiles prevent syntax errors" is a red herring. Sure, you can
>> prevent stupid typos by offering only tiles with correctly spelled
>> keywords, but that's not really a major problem in ordinary
>> experience. The more perniciou
At Mon, 13 Jun 2011 17:16:10 -0400,
C. Scott Ananian wrote:
>
> > given that most non-Chinese can't read Chinese writing, despite that many of
> > these characters do actually resemble crude line-art drawings of various
> > things and ideas.
>
> It is a common linguistic misperception that there
At Mon, 13 Jun 2011 21:55:54 +0200,
karl ramberg wrote:
>
> I got wondering about commit failure and cases where you needed certain
> objects in the world child anyway.
> Or two different worlds merging. Will that be possible ?
Yes. You catch an exception to keep the computation going:
a :
On 14/06/2011, at 7:16 AM, C. Scott Ananian wrote:
>> Consider what it'd be like if we didn't represent code as text... and
>> represented it maybe as series of ideograms or icons (TileScript nod).
>> Syntax errors don't really crop up any more, do they? Given a slightly nicer
>> User Interface t
On 14/06/2011, at 7:33 AM, Casey Ransberger wrote:
> Kids may not have the linguistic development out of the way that one needs to
> do "serious" programming. Adults who don't already code may find themselves
> short on some of the core concepts that conventional programming languages
> expect
On 14/06/2011, at 6:02 AM, BGB wrote:
> but, what would be the gain?... the major issue with most possible graphical
> representations, is that they are far less compact. hence, the common use of
> graphical presentations to represent a small amount in information in a
> "compelling" way (say,
Below.
On Jun 13, 2011, at 2:16 PM, "C. Scott Ananian" wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 4:02 PM, BGB wrote:
>> Consider what it'd be like if we didn't represent code as text... and
>> represented it maybe as series of ideograms or icons (TileScript nod).
>> Syntax errors don't really crop up an
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 4:02 PM, BGB wrote:
> Consider what it'd be like if we didn't represent code as text... and
> represented it maybe as series of ideograms or icons (TileScript nod).
> Syntax errors don't really crop up any more, do they? Given a slightly nicer
> User Interface than tilescri
Inline and abridged.
On Jun 13, 2011, at 1:03 PM, "Jecel Assumpcao Jr." wrote:
>> Have you looked at the ALUs that kids have been making in Minecraft?
>> You can _walk around_ in there. Inside the simulated microprocessor,
>> and actually watch the "electrons" walk down the "Redstone wire." And
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 6:58 PM, Jecel Assumpcao Jr. wrote:
> Casey,
>
> > > But did you actually understand the Visual6502 and not just the idea of
> > > it?
> >
> > Nope. But it struck me to be able to see it compute. I do think I took
> > something of value from the experience: I just don't kno
On 6/13/2011 3:19 AM, Julian Leviston wrote:
On 13/06/2011, at 7:50 PM, BGB wrote:
On 6/13/2011 1:33 AM, Julian Leviston wrote:
On 12/06/2011, at 1:00 PM, BGB wrote:
image-based systems have their own sets of drawbacks though...
dynamic reload could be a "good enough" compromise IMO, if do
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 2:21 PM, Casey Ransberger
wrote:
> Comments below.
> On Jun 13, 2011, at 6:00 AM, Dale Schumacher
> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 4:50 AM, BGB wrote:
>
> however, unlike full image-based development, the app will generally
> "forget" everything that was going on once
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 9:31 PM, Julian Leviston wrote:
> I wrote this without reading the very latest
> http://www.vpri.org/pdf/tr2011001_final_worlds.pdf so if I say anything
> that is obviously missing that understanding, please bear with me :) I'll
> read it shortly.
>
I got wondering about
Casey,
> > But did you actually understand the Visual6502 and not just the idea of
> > it?
>
> Nope. But it struck me to be able to see it compute. I do think I took
> something of value from the experience: I just don't know what it is yet.
I agree it is a very interesting experiment and I lik
I wrote this without reading the very latest
http://www.vpri.org/pdf/tr2011001_final_worlds.pdf so if I say anything that is
obviously missing that understanding, please bear with me :) I'll read it
shortly.
Julian.
On 14/06/2011, at 5:26 AM, Julian Leviston wrote:
>
> On 14/06/2011, at 4:0
On 14/06/2011, at 4:07 AM, Josh Gargus wrote:
>
> On Jun 13, 2011, at 9:35 AM, Julian Leviston wrote:
>
>>
>> On 14/06/2011, at 1:17 AM, Alan Kay wrote:
>>
>>> It would be great if everyone on this list would think deeply about how to
>>> have an "eternal" system, and only be amplified by it
Comments below.
On Jun 13, 2011, at 6:00 AM, Dale Schumacher wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 4:50 AM, BGB wrote:
>>
>> however, unlike full image-based development, the app will generally
>> "forget" everything that was going on once it is exited and restarted.
>>
>
> I think this is one of
Amplification: if I wagered a guess, I'd go with "of human reach" or "of
potential leverage."
I also have one amp that goes up to 11, which is really nice because sometimes
I like a touch of extra kick for the solo.
On Jun 13, 2011, at 9:35 AM, Julian Leviston wrote:
>
> On 14/06/2011, at 1
On Jun 13, 2011, at 9:35 AM, Julian Leviston wrote:
>
> On 14/06/2011, at 1:17 AM, Alan Kay wrote:
>
>> It would be great if everyone on this list would think deeply about how to
>> have an "eternal" system, and only be amplified by it.
>
> Hi Alan,
>
> You might need to elucidate a little m
On 14/06/2011, at 1:17 AM, Alan Kay wrote:
> It would be great if everyone on this list would think deeply about how to
> have an "eternal" system, and only be amplified by it.
Hi Alan,
You might need to elucidate a little more on this for me to personally
understand you. Not sure how others
It would be great if everyone on this list would think deeply about how to have
an "eternal" system, and only be amplified by it.
For example, take a look at Alex Warth's "Worlds" work (and paper) and see how
that might be used to deal with larger problems of consistency and version
control in
On Monday 13 Jun 2011 2:03:29 PM Julian Leviston wrote:
> I think the main issue with smalltalk-like "image" systems is that the
> system doesn't as easily let you "start from blank" like text-file
> source-code style coding does... thats to say, yes, it's possible to start
> new worlds, but it's n
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 4:50 AM, BGB wrote:
>
> however, unlike full image-based development, the app will generally
> "forget" everything that was going on once it is exited and restarted.
>
I think this is one of the most annoying "features" of our current
computer systems. If I have a project
Am 13.06.2011 11:50, schrieb BGB:
> an image based system, OTOH, often means having to drag around the image
> instead, which may include a bunch of "other
> stuff" beyond just the raw text of the program, and may couple the program
> and the particular development environment
> used to create it
On 13/06/2011, at 7:50 PM, BGB wrote:
> On 6/13/2011 1:33 AM, Julian Leviston wrote:
>> On 12/06/2011, at 1:00 PM, BGB wrote:
>>
>>> image-based systems have their own sets of drawbacks though...
>>>
>>> dynamic reload could be a "good enough" compromise IMO, if done well...
>> I don't follow t
On 6/13/2011 1:33 AM, Julian Leviston wrote:
On 12/06/2011, at 1:00 PM, BGB wrote:
image-based systems have their own sets of drawbacks though...
dynamic reload could be a "good enough" compromise IMO, if done well...
I don't follow this train of thought. Everything runs in "an image". That's
On 12/06/2011, at 1:00 PM, BGB wrote:
> image-based systems have their own sets of drawbacks though...
>
> dynamic reload could be a "good enough" compromise IMO, if done well...
I don't follow this train of thought. Everything runs in "an image". That's to
say, the source code directly relate
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