Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking

2014-04-24 Thread nicky . hamlyn
: John Knecht jkne...@colgate.edu To: Experimental Film Discussion List frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com Sent: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 20:39 Subject: Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking Tim, I would hold their first projects to one minute in length. Talk to them up front about each

Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking

2014-04-24 Thread Rajesh Barnabas
. Worked well. Nicky. -Original Message- From: John Knecht jkne...@colgate.edu To: Experimental Film Discussion List frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com Sent: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 20:39 Subject: Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking Tim, I would hold their first projects

Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking

2014-04-24 Thread chris
If you want to piss off students, wasting their time and money, then by all means, make them learn some specialized, anachronistic subject that has little or no application in the real world. Aaron ten years ago at art school I went to, this was the argument from management about 16mm

Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking

2014-04-23 Thread Tim Halloran
...@flickharrison.com Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2014 12:29:52 -0700 To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com Subject: Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking On Apr 18, 2014, at 15:26 , Tim Halloran televis...@hotmail.com wrote: Slow=bad?! Bah. Tim It's nice to work slowly if you are trying to do so; it's

Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking

2014-04-23 Thread Chris Freeman
just terrible--so much junk. Shoot slow, edit slow, experience slow. ;] Tim -- From: fl...@flickharrison.com Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2014 12:29:52 -0700 To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com Subject: Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking On Apr 18, 2014

Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking

2014-04-23 Thread Tim Halloran
Of course. Well stated. Tim Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 15:39:10 -0400 From: jkne...@colgate.edu To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com Subject: Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking Tim, I would hold their first projects to one minute in length. Talk to them up front

Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking

2014-04-23 Thread John Knecht
-- From: fl...@flickharrison.com Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2014 12:29:52 -0700 To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com Subject: Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking On Apr 18, 2014, at 15:26 , Tim Halloran televis...@hotmail.com wrote: Slow=bad?! Bah

Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking

2014-04-23 Thread Aaron F. Ross
-- From: fl...@flickharrison.com Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2014 12:29:52 -0700 To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com Subject: Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking On Apr 18, 2014, at 15:26 , Tim Halloran mailto:televis...@hotmail.comtelevis...@hotmail.com wrote: Slow=bad?! Bah. Tim It's

Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking

2014-04-23 Thread David Tetzlaff
Forget this story telling stuff. That is something else. For a class or assignments defined by an experimental' rubric, sure. But for any general motion-picture production class story is essential, though not, of course in a Bob McKee Hollywood formula kind of way. Which is to say that

Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking

2014-04-23 Thread Tim Halloran
You, sir, are obviously neither an educator nor an artist. ;] Tim Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 13:02:39 -0700 To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com From: aa...@digitalartsguild.com Subject: Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking Damn you kids, get off my lawn!! This argument

Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking

2014-04-23 Thread Fred Camper
On 4/23/2014 4:21 PM, Tim Halloran wrote: You, sir, are obviously neither an educator nor an artist. ;] There is just about never a reason for an ad hominem attack such as this one. Fred Camper Chicago ___ FrameWorks mailing list

Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking

2014-04-23 Thread Tim Halloran
Lol. Alright, was just kidding around, but apologies to any delicate flowers who took offense. Tim Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 16:30:37 -0500 From: f...@fredcamper.com To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com Subject: Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking On 4/23/2014 4:21 PM

Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking

2014-04-23 Thread Scott Dorsey
But you _can_ reject the technology. Not at all times, nor throughout the whole program. But, just because oil painting exists does not mean that art students shouldn't learn how to make frescos. --scott ___ FrameWorks mailing list

Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking

2014-04-23 Thread Aaron F. Ross
It's true, professors with tenure can ignore the changing times. There's no accountability and no consequences, so tenured professors can be rigid, inflexible, and anachronistic, and get away with it. But of course, that is doing the students a disservice. There's a huge disconnect between

Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking

2014-04-23 Thread Peter Mudie
Then again, with all the dross out in the world, some people/students should never be allowed to make a film/video. Peter (Perth) On 24/04/2014 8:12 am, Aaron F. Ross aa...@digitalartsguild.com wrote: It's true, professors with tenure can ignore the changing times. There's no accountability and

Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking

2014-04-23 Thread Jonathan Walley
As a tenured professor who has spent the entire day meeting with students about their work, writing page-long evaluations of same, assisting with the preparation of a student film festival - and the entire week researching digital filmmaking technology and contemporary French cinema (to name

Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking

2014-04-23 Thread Steven
Late to the conversation, please forgive. When I was teaching (an associates degree program), I taught as I had learned. Tell a story visually in three minutes. Edit in camera, no retakes, if there is a mistake, so be it, it is after all only an exercise. Yes it is a pain if you are parallel

Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking

2014-04-22 Thread Flick Harrison
On Apr 18, 2014, at 15:26 , Tim Halloran televis...@hotmail.com wrote: Slow=bad?! Bah. Tim It's nice to work slowly if you are trying to do so; it's insanely annoying if you are not. Imagine if a painter put a stroke on the canvas and couldn't see it for 30 seconds afterwards. Not

Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking

2014-04-19 Thread nicky . hamlyn
Re below, they didn't: http://www.bolex.ch/NEW/index.php Nicky -Original Message- From: David Tetzlaff djte...@gmail.com To: Experimental Film Discussion List frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com Sent: Fri, 18 Apr 2014 18:01 Subject: Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach

Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking

2014-04-19 Thread Laura Kraning
I teach at CalArts and we switched our editing curriculum over to Avid two years ago from FCP 7, mainly because FCP X and Premiere were not satisfactory for our workflows, including working with flex files and cut lists for 16mm editing (though animation students learn Premiere to integrate

Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking

2014-04-18 Thread Scott Dorsey
FCP X feels like it's intended for assembling TV news programs instead of feature films. That's probably fine for some things, but it depends what you're trying to teach. --scott ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com

Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking

2014-04-18 Thread chris bravo
assembling TV news programs what do you mean by this? Seriously, I think there is a critique of FCP X to be made, its just that I NEVER actually hear it. Feels like it is intended for that can't make any sense. OH, THE CHILDREN! On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 8:54 AM, Scott Dorsey klu...@panix.com

Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking

2014-04-18 Thread Jason Halprin
I think I'd like to second what Scot has said here: it depends on what you're trying to teach. Over the last three years, I've taught at three different schools and have instructed with FCP 7, FCPX, and Premiere. I've had good results using all three, and I've had unimaginative, lazy projects

Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking

2014-04-18 Thread Adam Hyman
One view: I work in the television industry. I think if everyone is starting fresh, you should teach them at least two editing systems, and Avid should be one, if they are interested in working in the professional world. Avid Premiere, or Avid and at least one FCP version. I think FCP X is fine

Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking

2014-04-18 Thread Jen Proctor
I had found it interesting that no one had mentioned Avid yet. In our program, we made the switch to Avid (just as FCPX was introduced) mainly because FCPX was largely being rejected by most post houses and we wanted to make sure our students had *some* kind of industry standard software

Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking

2014-04-18 Thread Esorp
After considerable discussion at my institution we chose to migrate to Premiere. While there were some amongst us who were quite comfortable and enthusiastic about FCPX, the consensus was that it was not flexible enough to accommodate the experimental work we wanted to support nor compatible

Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking

2014-04-18 Thread chris bravo
not flexible enough to accommodate the experimental work we wanted to support this doesn't mean anything either. is a steenbeck flexible? Is a guillotine splicer and rewinds flexible? Do you really think experimental work has not been made on FCP X? On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Esorp

Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking

2014-04-18 Thread David Tetzlaff
We spend a lot of time with the learning curve of the software, and not as much time as I'd like with the conceptual aspect of creative work. BINGO!! Frankly, I don't understand why anyone would abandon FCP7. When Bolex stopped making the H16, schools using film didn't rush out and buy Arri

Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking

2014-04-18 Thread John Warren
Thanks for the query, Irene. I am also interested to see what is happening at other institutions. I teach at two schools in Nashville that were both using FCP7 a couple of years ago, and they have adopted two different solutions. At the Watkins College of Art, Design Film, they have largely

Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking

2014-04-18 Thread lindsay mcintyre
for what it's worth, FAVA (a film and video coop based in Edmonton, Alberta) recently switched over all digital editing systems to premiere with external drives ready and loaded with FCP7 and FCP X should any user prefer or require what those programs offer. i think even AVID is still available.

Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking

2014-04-18 Thread Flick Harrison
David, all your arguments are reasonable (and I always love reading your posts) but gear wears out, updates break things, and cameras and tape break down. I've seen whole computer labs lose firewire because one person plugged a shazzed-up cable into all ten cameras in a single day. That's the

Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking

2014-04-18 Thread Tim Halloran
Slow=bad?! Bah. Tim Sent from my iPhone On Apr 18, 2014, at 1:16 PM, Flick Harrison fl...@flickharrison.com wrote: ...will sloow you down, and that's bad creatively... - Flick ___ FrameWorks mailing list

[Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking

2014-04-17 Thread Irene Lusztig
Dear Frameworks, This isn't strictly an experimental film query, but I know many people who teach read this listerve. My department has delayed for years the decision about what to do about the transition away from teaching Final Cut Pro 7, and result has been increasingly chaotic and

Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking

2014-04-17 Thread Chris Freeman
I disagree with $4000. A 21 iMac - what a school would likely be running Final Cut on - starts at $1299. I assume there are bulk discounts for schools, but they likely already have the computers. I'm not a teacher, but I graduated four years ago and kept in touch with teachers at my old school.

Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking

2014-04-17 Thread Dan Anderson
As a general rule of thumb, don't listen to anyone's opinion on Final Cut X unless they've actually taken the time learn and understand it... Same advice should be used for most things in life ;-) On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 7:11 PM, Chris Freeman christopherbriggsfree...@gmail.com wrote: I

Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking

2014-04-17 Thread Peter Mudie
@jonasmekasfilms.com Subject: Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking I disagree with $4000. A 21 iMac - what a school would likely be running Final Cut on - starts at $1299. I assume there are bulk discounts for schools, but they likely already have the computers. I'm not a teacher, but I

Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking

2014-04-17 Thread Pip Chodorov
I am teaching at Dongguk University in Seoul now. I brought over eight super-8 cameras and all the raw products needed to mix together BW reversal chemicals, 60 rolls of Tri-X, a few viewers and splicers. The school switched to digital five years ago, but they still have a couple of Arriflexes

Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking

2014-04-17 Thread Aaron F. Ross
I would steer clear of iMacs for video editing, they are underpowered. If you want to render HD video, it's going to be slow and painful on even the high end iMacs. The Mac Pro is very fast, but very expensive. It is only available with small solid state drives, so you have to buy additional

Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking

2014-04-17 Thread Beebe, Roger W.
On the original topic of editing software, I’d throw my weight behind switching to Premiere. At the University of Florida, I experimented for a semester with FCPX, and I found it buggy dumbed down in ways that made it hard to do things that I’ve come to expect from my editing systems. The

Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking

2014-04-17 Thread chris bravo
I really don't get this idea that FCP X is dumb? What do people mean by that? FCP X is obviously not dumb, are you referring to features? Clip tagging with keywords, for example, is totally innovative and forward thinking (it seems to me) and allows an editor to navigate through more footage more

Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking

2014-04-17 Thread Richard Sylvarnes
Apple is very direct in their intention to make FCPX more favorable to the consumer and IMovie user. They recognize that the professional market is too small for their bottom line. Therefore, yes, they are dumbing it down. Why, otherwise, is every professional editor I know either

Re: [Frameworks] query for those who teach filmmaking

2014-04-17 Thread chris bravo
iMovie isn't dumb either. In 2000-2001 ish there was a major move away from FCP 3 (at the time) to iMovie, and a lot of professional editors edited exclusively on iMovie, including Zach Stiglitz and Art Jones, I believe. So, yeah, the iMovie as derogatory slur doesn't make much sense to me