[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 08, 2005 at 11:06:13PM -0800, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
>>
>
> Actually, I was referring more to the idea of posting my responces to
> other people questions. For instance, I recently posted several
> responces for the thread about xhost and x authentication
On Tue, Feb 08, 2005 at 11:06:13PM -0800, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Loren M. Lang
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 9:33 PM
> > To: freebsd-question
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Loren M. Lang
> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 9:33 PM
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: favor
>
>
> What if I wanted to put up a page of emails that I wr
On Sat, Feb 05, 2005 at 11:43:32AM +0100, Anthony Atkielski wrote:
> Mike Hauber writes:
>
>
> MH> But that's different in that it was never released to a public forum
> MH> in the first place (explicitly or otherwise).
>
> I'm not sure what you mean by "public forum." A server accessible from
On Mon, Feb 07, 2005 at 05:16:22PM +0100, Anthony Atkielski typed:
>
> DG> So it helps the copyright situation, but breaks the usefulness of
> DG> any archive.
>
> The copyright situation is an unavoidable legal mandate, not an option.
> You cannot defend against an infringement action by saying
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Anthony
> Atkielski
> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 2:58 AM
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: favor
>
>
>
> > If they are using it as a compone
Ted Mittelstaedt writes:
> My feeling is that if a site is extremely difficult to navigate
> within - such as many news sites (ie cnn.com, etc.) that this
> encourages deep linking. If the site owners don't want deep
> linking then they can make their sites easier to navigate within.
I tend to a
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Anthony
> Atkielski
> Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 3:20 AM
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: favor
>
>
> Ted Mittelstaedt writes:
>
> TM> This
On Sun, 2005-02-06 at 15:38 -0800, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
Sorry if I offended anyone with my previous post re: freebsd-legal mail
list. I just feel that all being discussed after the first 20 or so was
3 or 4 individuals expressing their opinions to each other.
I _firmly_ believe that all hav
On Monday 07 February 2005 11:17 am, Anthony Atkielski
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Eric Kjeldergaard writes:
>
> EK> Perhaps they take a greater risk, or perhaps things are simpler
> than EK> that. Perhaps, upon submitting something according to the
> simple EK> instructions with intent for it to
Joshua Tinnin writes:
JT> Since this is a volunteer organization, and it seems to me that you
JT> have the most interest in it, and if you refuse to let this go, then
JT> I have a suggestion. Hire a lawyer and write up a legally sound
JT> plan, and then submit it. Until then, you're demanding thin
Joshua Tinnin writes:
JT> If you want "real" support, that costs money, and it doesn't matter
JT> if you're talking about BSD, Linux, Windows, Solaris, etc.
Yes, and that's the paradox of open source. There's really no such
thing as a free lunch.
Even if you know your product inside and out and
David Gerard writes:
DG> Actually, I most profitably apply it in my day job, which is administering
DG> Solaris ;-) The purpose of vendors is to say to your boss that you have an
DG> SLA; getting actual *support* out of anyone (with exceptions like NetApp)
DG> is something best avoided IME.
Somet
Eric Kjeldergaard writes:
EK> Perhaps they take a greater risk, or perhaps things are simpler than
EK> that. Perhaps, upon submitting something according to the simple
EK> instructions with intent for it to be published, it gets published
EK> as the general populous would expect...Often things are
On Feb 7, 2005, at 11:37 AM, Anthony Atkielski wrote:
Eric Kjeldergaard writes:
EK> To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the
EK> freebsd-questions Archives.
EK>
EK> Since we are discussing implicit contracts, I would think that the
EK> announcement that the collection of prior
On Feb 7, 2005, at 11:30 AM, Eric Kjeldergaard wrote:
EK> Let us make an analogue betwixt our Valerie and one who submits
to the
EK> local newspaper. There is a roughly equal level of consent given
in
EK> both cases ...
Not so, on two points: (1) the newspaper is obviously available to
anyone (
On Monday 07 February 2005 08:13 am, Anthony Atkielski
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Eric Kjeldergaard writes:
> EK> I don't see that a mailing list would need such a thing. The
> EK> submissions are given under the understanding that they shall be
> EK> publicly available both to subscribers and n
On Monday 07 February 2005 08:37 am, Anthony Atkielski
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Eric Kjeldergaard writes:
>
> EK> To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the
> EK> freebsd-questions Archives.
> EK>
> EK> Since we are discussing implicit contracts, I would think that
> the EK
On Monday 07 February 2005 08:16 am, Anthony Atkielski
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> David Gerard writes:
>
> DG> That would sorta suck. I know I write my questions and answers
> with DG> a view to them being searchable on the web maybe months or
> years DG> later, as I know how very grateful I am
Anthony Atkielski ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [050208 03:53]:
> David Gerard writes:
> DG> I go to a site called google.com and I enter error messages
> DG> verbatim, and often what comes back is a pile of mailing list posts.
> DG> They are far superior to nothing.
> No doubt, but they are far inferior
> It doesn't matter where they go. It only matters where they may be
> expected to go by someone writing to the newspaper.
right. And in this case, the person expects it to go to untold and
unnamed numbers of people who desire to see the message. Which is,
after all, exactly who's seeing it.
>
David Gerard writes:
DG> I go to a site called google.com and I enter error messages
DG> verbatim, and often what comes back is a pile of mailing list posts.
DG> They are far superior to nothing.
No doubt, but they are far inferior to a formal, well-organized support
system.
The lack of support
Eric Kjeldergaard writes:
EK> Not always so, I know of many newspapers that go to subscribers only
EK> (which local libraries are often among). This is especially true of
EK> places without newstands.
It doesn't matter where they go. It only matters where they may be
expected to go by someone w
Eric Kjeldergaard writes:
EK> To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the
EK> freebsd-questions Archives.
EK>
EK> Since we are discussing implicit contracts, I would think that the
EK> announcement that the collection of prior postings is linked to and
EK> mentioned/described to
Anthony Atkielski ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [050208 03:16]:
> David Gerard writes:
> DG> That would sorta suck. I know I write my questions and answers with
> DG> a view to them being searchable on the web maybe months or years
> DG> later, as I know how very grateful I am to those whose archived
> DG>
> EK> Let us make an analogue betwixt our Valerie and one who submits to the
> EK> local newspaper. There is a roughly equal level of consent given in
> EK> both cases ...
>
> Not so, on two points: (1) the newspaper is obviously available to
> anyone (it's on the newsstands), and not only to a s
> Archiving messages without telling subscribers
> about it and requiring them to agree with it only invites trouble.
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
This is the page on which you sign up. You'll notice it says this in the about:
This is the mailing list for quest
David Gerard writes:
DG> That would sorta suck. I know I write my questions and answers with
DG> a view to them being searchable on the web maybe months or years
DG> later, as I know how very grateful I am to those whose archived
DG> words have helped me before.
Having to search an archive of e-m
Eric Kjeldergaard writes:
EK> Let us make an analogue betwixt our Valerie and one who submits to the
EK> local newspaper. There is a roughly equal level of consent given in
EK> both cases ...
Not so, on two points: (1) the newspaper is obviously available to
anyone (it's on the newsstands), and
Anthony Atkielski ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [050208 03:08]:
> An alternative is to make the archive accessible only to current
> members, and to purge posts from any member who leaves the list.
> There's still a bit of risk in that but it eliminates most potential
> objections.
That would sorta suck.
Ted Mittelstaedt writes:
TM> Clearly I think Anthony is saying in his posts to me that the
TM> list managers should e-mail legal boilerplate to every subscriber
TM> that they would then agree to, which would basically state that
TM> the poster waives their copyrights if they post.
Approximately,
After having read this thread (yes, every line of it...) I'm really
quite interested in it. Unfortunately, an analogy dropped off perhaps
below SeƱor Atkielski's radar so I thought I would recreate it and
hear his (and of course everyone else's) opinion(s) on it.
Let us make an analogue betwixt o
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Joshua Tinnin
> Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 2:20 PM
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Cc: Anthony Atkielski
> Subject: Re: favor
>
>
> How do you suggest this li
Ted Mittelstaedt writes:
[everything snipped]
You've confused so many different and indepdent topics in your
posts--copyright infringement, access control, editorial control,
invasions of privacy, defamation, and the First Amendment, to name a
few--that I cannot respond to it coherently. Perhaps
Joshua Tinnin writes:
JT> What contract is implied here?
When a person subscribes to a list in exchange for receiving mail from
the list.
JT> Is this what has happened here? Has the OP's ability to pay rent
JT> been damaged by her archived post?
I don't know. It's easy to conceive of plausible
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Anthony
> Atkielski
> Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 6:43 AM
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: favor
>
>
> TM> Well unless things have changed
> T
On Sunday 06 February 2005 06:43 am, Anthony Atkielski
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The requirements of contract law are not waived simply because they are
> inconvenient for one party. A contract, once concluded, remains binding
> even if one party finds it troublesome to live up to its obligat
Anthony Atkielski wrote:
Ted Mittelstaedt writes:
TM> Many content creators take the attitude that any republishing
TM> isn't covered under Fair Use.
Probably because that attitude is grossly congruent with the law and
jurisprudence.
*** Snip ***
After following this thread, does this mean we're a
Ted Mittelstaedt writes:
TM> Many content creators take the attitude that any republishing
TM> isn't covered under Fair Use.
Probably because that attitude is grossly congruent with the law and
jurisprudence.
TM> That is understandable because the Fair Use doctorine is
TM> deliberately broad ...
> On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 15:00:56 +0100,
> Anthony Atkielski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
SR> Now #2, authorization:
SR>
SR> Finckenstein states:
SR>
SR> [26] No evidence was presented that the alleged infringers either
SR> distributed or authorized the reproduction of sound recordings.
Sandy Rutherford writes:
SR> I'm not sure what you mean here. If you are going to call http
SR> public, then wouldn't any other open protocol also be public?
It's a network that people explicitly opt into. For example, if you put
something on a P-to-P network, it's reasonable to assume that it
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Anthony
> Atkielski
> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 3:08 AM
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: favor
>
>
> Except that it's not covered under
> On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 11:53:40 +0100,
> Anthony Atkielski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> Sandy Rutherford writes:
SR> Hold on a second. Shared P-to-P directories certainly are indexed and
SR> Finckenstein knew this.
> Where are they indexed? I though P-to-P was a proprietary
> protoco
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
On 6 Feb 2005, at 01:56, Anthony Atkielski wrote:
Sandy Rutherford writes:
SR> However, it is hard to see that as the prerequisite "positive act"
SR> on the part of the web site owner. It is more a positive act on
SR> Google's part.
Google doesn't find
urday, February 05, 2005 4:35 PM
>> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
>> Subject: Re: favor
>>
>>
>> Am I the only one longing for a freebsd-legal mail list that I will not
>> subscribe to?
>>
> Hmm - let's see now, FreeBSD's entire reaso
Ted Mittelstaedt writes:
TM> This is a bit of twisting of the definition of "site that is public"
TM> in my opinion.
The key distinction is between a venue to which access must be
explicitly requested and one that a person can visit without any
formalities. Asking people to register or subscribe
Sandy Rutherford writes:
SR> Hold on a second. Shared P-to-P directories certainly are indexed and
SR> Finckenstein knew this.
Where are they indexed? I though P-to-P was a proprietary
protocol--which implies that public services like Google can't index it.
An index internal to the P-to-P syste
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Robert Marella
> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 4:35 PM
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: favor
>
>
> Am I the only one longing for a freebsd-lega
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Anthony
> Atkielski
> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 5:56 PM
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: favor
>
>
> Sandy Rutherford writes:
>
> SR>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Sandy
> Rutherford
> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 3:55 PM
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: favor
>
>
> >>>>> On Sat, 5 Feb 2005 11:4
> On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 02:56:03 +0100,
> Anthony Atkielski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> Sandy Rutherford writes:
SR> This is not so clear. In a March 2004 decision regarding P-to-P music
SR> sharing, Justice von Finckenstein of the Federal Court of Canada ruled
SR> that:
SR>
SR> The
Robert Marella writes:
RM> Am I the only one longing for a freebsd-legal mail list that I will not
RM> subscribe to?
Unfortunately, ignoring legal issues won't necessarily exempt you from
being affected by them, especially if you operate any kind of public
server (and the definition of that can b
Sandy Rutherford writes:
SR> This is not so clear. In a March 2004 decision regarding P-to-P music
SR> sharing, Justice von Finckenstein of the Federal Court of Canada ruled
SR> that:
SR>
SR>The mere fact of placing a copy on a shared directory in a computer
SR>where that copy can be acc
On Sat, 2005-02-05 at 05:52 +0100, Anthony Atkielski wrote:
> Mike Hauber writes:
> The cat is being pushed back into the bag rather rapidly. The legal
> profession was slow to apply the law to the Internet, but it is learning
> fast.
To paraphrase the "Bard" "The first thing we do, let's kill
> On Sat, 5 Feb 2005 11:43:32 +0100,
> Anthony Atkielski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
MH> But that's different in that it was never released to a public forum
MH> in the first place (explicitly or otherwise).
> I'm not sure what you mean by "public forum." A server accessible from
> th
On Fri, 2005-02-04 at 23:05 +0100, Erik Norgaard wrote:
> When I search for my name, I'm in competition with a wrestler - really
> anoying,
Deja Vu all over again. Who is Gorilla Monsoon and why is google filled
up with him when I search my name. ;)
On Feb 5, 2005, at 3:01 AM, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Erik Norgaard
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 11:35 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: favor
Mike Hauber wrote:
Fact is
Ted Mittelstaedt writes:
TM> Yes you are. What do you think publishing is?
Publishing is the divulgation of the tangible expression of a work to a
party other than the author, as a general rule. Under copyright law in
most jurisdictions, any publication must be explicitly authorized by the
auth
Mike Hauber writes:
MH> If I were to send you an email and a header (or signature) stated
MH> that you were not privy to the contents of the email, then you
MH> could be in serious trouble.
No, because you explicitly sent me the e-mail. If the confidential
contents were not your own, however, y
On Feb 5 at 08:35, Erik Norgaard wondered out loud:
> Mike Hauber wrote:
>> Fact is, the cats out of the bag, and I have yet to meet a cat that likes
>> bags. :)
>
> I went on radio some years ago, now I realize that the radiowaves are about
> to hit alien civilizations. In order not to embaras
On Feb 4 at 23:43, Mike Hauber opined:
> On Friday 04 February 2005 10:39 pm, Anthony Atkielski wrote:
>> Ted Mittelstaedt writes:
>>
>> TM> If you post on a public forum, by implication you are giving that
>> TM> forum permission to publish your copyrighted material.
>>
>>
>> The only way to get
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Erik Norgaard
> Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 11:35 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: favor
>
>
> Mike Hauber wrote:
> &
Mike Hauber wrote:
Fact is, the cats out of the bag, and I have yet to meet a cat
that likes bags. :)
I went on radio some years ago, now I realize that the radiowaves are
about to hit alien civilizations. In order not to embaras my self or the
entire human race, I'd like to have those radio w
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mike Hauber
> Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 9:31 PM
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: favor
>
>
> On Friday 04 February 2005 11:52 pm, Anthony Atkielski wr
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Anthony
> Atkielski
> Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 7:40 PM
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: favor
>
>
> Ted Mittelstaedt writes:
>
> TM> If you
> Actually, I have a question. I'm in the middle of upgrading my
> dataserver, and I'm building ports on ttyv2,3&5. I have xdm
> running on ttyv8. I just finished installing wdm (on ttyv4) and
> I edited /etc/ttys to run wdm on ttyv8 instead of xdm. Is there
> a way to reset ttyv8 so that i
> In that case, this email is absolutely copyrighted by me (along
> with ... my recipie for coffee)
Hah! Bad move kiddo!
*slurp* *twitch*
I'll make a fortune! Hahaha...
Mark
--
PGP: http://www.darklogik.org/pub/pgp/pgp.txt
B776 43DC 8A5D EAF9 2126 9A67 A7DA 390F DEFF 9DD1
pgpnnQq0NmTBB.pg
On Friday 04 February 2005 11:52 pm, Anthony Atkielski wrote:
> Mike Hauber writes:
>
> MH> Not wanting to jump into this, because I think the whole of
> the MH> argument is ridiculous... But, in a nutshell...
> Aren't you MH> trying to make the same argument that SCO is
> trying to make?
>
> I'm
Mike Hauber writes:
MH> Not wanting to jump into this, because I think the whole of the
MH> argument is ridiculous... But, in a nutshell... Aren't you
MH> trying to make the same argument that SCO is trying to make?
I'm not familiar with SCO's argument. The principles of copyright have
existed
On Friday 04 February 2005 10:39 pm, Anthony Atkielski wrote:
> Ted Mittelstaedt writes:
>
> TM> If you post on a public forum, by implication you are
> giving that TM> forum permission to publish your copyrighted
> material.
>
> No, you're not. If you post to a public forum, you're giving
> impli
Ted Mittelstaedt writes:
TM> If you post on a public forum, by implication you are giving that
TM> forum permission to publish your copyrighted material.
No, you're not. If you post to a public forum, you're giving implicit
permission for your posts to be visible _within that forum_. You are
no
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Chris Hodgins
> Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 2:17 PM
> To: Erik Norgaard
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: favor
>
>
> No. You could howev
Chuck Swiger wrote:
Chris Hodgins wrote:
Chuck Swiger wrote:
[ ... ]
Google does offer a way to remove posts that you have made from its
index:
http://www.google.co.uk/googlegroups/help.html#9
Notice the part which says:
"Messages posted by other people
By its very nature, Usenet consists
Chris Hodgins wrote:
Chuck Swiger wrote:
[ ... ]
Google does offer a way to remove posts that you have made from its index:
http://www.google.co.uk/googlegroups/help.html#9
Notice the part which says:
"Messages posted by other people
By its very nature, Usenet consists of information posted b
Chris Hodgins wrote:
Google only requests that you use the same email address to have it
removed. I think this is reasonable. You can actually get it removed
without using the email address but I think that is a little harder.
or forge the email?
If you feel the first matches refer to irrelevan
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If Google can do it, I'm sure FreeBSD can figure out how to do it.
> Google calls it "nuking a post". Any nukers with know-how out there?
No, google keeps a mirror of the list, there are numerous independent
mirrors that are beyond control of FreeBSD.org, and you'll have
PROTECTED]>
> > Date: 2005/02/04 Fri PM 04:58:00 EST
> > To: Chuck Swiger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: favor
> >
> > Chuck Swiger wrote:
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > >
> &
Erik Norgaard wrote:
Chris Hodgins wrote:
IANAL but I think it would be interesting to know what the legal
implications are here. Could it be a legal requirement that you can
request that your data is removed?
Could it be a legal requirement that you can prove that you are actually
the origina
gt;
> CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: favor
>
> Chuck Swiger wrote:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> >> Hi FreeBSD. When googling my name, your list comes up 13 times because
> >> of a
> >> thread from 2003. Could you kindly
Chris Hodgins wrote:
IANAL but I think it would be interesting to know what the legal
implications are here. Could it be a legal requirement that you can
request that your data is removed?
Could it be a legal requirement that you can prove that you are actually
the original poster and as the au
Chuck Swiger wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi FreeBSD. When googling my name, your list comes up 13 times because
of a
thread from 2003. Could you kindly remove and delete this thread from
your
archives? I would really appreciate it.
Thanks,
Regrettably, there is no reliable or convenient way
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi FreeBSD. When googling my name, your list comes up 13 times because of a
thread from 2003. Could you kindly remove and delete this thread from your
archives? I would really appreciate it.
Thanks,
Regrettably, there is no reliable or convenient way to remove old postings
* Otvio Rox! ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [020927 05:46]:
> hi, im brazilian and i work as a free lancer with networks using freebsd,
> and i work at an internet provider in fortaleza city called 'baydenet'
> (www.baydenet.com.br).
>
> i am really interested in having an e-mail adress @freebsd.org . Her
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