Re: [FRIAM] Why "true" random?

2007-07-22 Thread Phil Henshaw
Not sure really what the inputs always used, but I think these Self-org & Self-adapt algorithms the SASO engineers were playing with didn't always use random generators to produce the systemic effects they were getting. Obviously all input effects all output in some sort of way, but it was the ou

Re: [FRIAM] Why "true" random?

2007-07-22 Thread Roger Frye
I would argue the opposite. While I agree with Doug that you need good RNGs (though not necessarily true RNGs) in order to avoid bias, the problem with good pseudo- or true- RNGs is that they have order N^2 convergence for Monte Carlo simulations. Quasi-random number generators on the oth

Re: [FRIAM] Why "true" random?

2007-07-22 Thread Robert Howard
How about deleting confidential data from hard disks! The solution today is to overwrite it many times with random data. But modern mathematics and technology makes it possible to recover the much of the original text given the original random sequence used to delete the data. Given a long sequen

Re: [FRIAM] Why "true" random?

2007-07-22 Thread Russell Standish
On Sun, Jul 22, 2007 at 01:52:35PM -0700, Robert Howard wrote: > How about deleting confidential data from hard disks! > > The solution today is to overwrite it many times with random data. > > But modern mathematics and technology makes it possible to recover the much > of the original text give

[FRIAM] DISREGARD: math and the mother church

2007-07-22 Thread Nicholas Thompson
SORRY, i SENT THIS OFF BEFORE IT WAS DONE! THIS VERSION IS COMPLETE Dear Friamers -- or Fry-Aimers, however it is that we are pronounced. Ever since I first got to santa fe four years ago, the pot has been burbling here concerning what can and cannot be done with mathematics that can or cann

Re: [FRIAM] Why "true" random?

2007-07-22 Thread James Steiner
Robert, It's my understanding that there has been no documented case of data recovered from a hard disk that has been erased by completely overwriting the contents 3 or more times with your choice of 0s, 1s, alternating bits, random bits, or whatever, outside of a lab environment using magnetic el

Re: [FRIAM] DISREGARD: math and the mother church

2007-07-22 Thread Russell Standish
On Sun, Jul 22, 2007 at 06:12:58PM -0600, Nicholas Thompson wrote: > > So, here is my present understanding of the mathematician's argument for the > mean value theorem. What I dont understand is why it takes three pages of > algebra to get there! I don't know where you get the 3 pages from. M

Re: [FRIAM] Criminalizing Peace

2007-07-22 Thread PPARYSKI
I received this from Frank Wimberly and think it deserves distribution and reaction. Bush's executive order is appalling and frightening even more so because the media have not adequately reported it or reacted. Perhaps we could apply a RNG to Bush and Cheney? cheers (?) Paul ***

Re: [FRIAM] Despite the Web, Americans Remain Woefully Ill-Informed

2007-07-22 Thread steve smith
I am disturbed by the non-sequitur inherent in the Subject and Body of this article: It suggests that the Web inherently *should* make Americans more well informed. 3 points: 1) I agree that these are not particularly important questions in their own right, but they *are* hugely significan

Re: [FRIAM] Why "true" random?

2007-07-22 Thread PPARYSKI
Logically is true, perfect randomness possible since it is being generated by a program designed by a human with a purpose - a thought construct? On one level is anything in the universe truly random? Paul Paryski ** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL

Re: [FRIAM] Criminalizing Peace

2007-07-22 Thread PPARYSKI
Somehow the fwd about Bush's exec order didn't work, so I have copied the text below. Paul Paryski While the American public...and the world...was being diverted by news stories of Dubya's colonoscopy scheduled for today, this, his latest executive order, was signed July 17, 20

Re: [FRIAM] DISREGARD: math and the mother church

2007-07-22 Thread Nicholas Thompson
Russell, Remember, mine was a book for English Majors, Berlinski's Tour of the Calculus. But thou quibblest! Dothn't thou? Why is the algebra necessary at all. Doesnt the mean value theorem fall out of the definition of a mean and the definition of continuity? Full stop. Granting only that

Re: [FRIAM] Despite the Web, Americans Remain Woefully Ill-Informed

2007-07-22 Thread Roger Critchlow
On 7/22/07, steve smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I am disturbed by the non-sequitur inherent in the Subject and Body of this article: It suggests that the Web inherently *should* make Americans more well informed. Myself, I'm getting a little tired of the pop quizzes demonstrating one kin

Re: [FRIAM] Despite the Web, Americans Remain Woefully Ill-Informed

2007-07-22 Thread Marcus G. Daniels
steve smith wrote: > 2) The internet, in my opinion, is still mainly a reference source... > Somewhere between a dictionary or encyclopedia and a newspaper or > magazine subscription. > > If people aren't interested in these kinds of facts, they won't look > them up and they won't "subscribe" (

[FRIAM] It's the Spies, Stupid!

2007-07-22 Thread Peter Lissaman
ROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Douglas Roberts > Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 1:19 AM > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group; > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Why "true" random? > > > Simulations of stochastic processes also require good RN gen