What's the point of determining whether a phenomenon is emergent or not?
What useful stuff can I actually do with that knowledge?
In other areas of my life, classification can have actionable consequences.
For example, I can use the sophisticated pattern-matching algorithms and
heuristics embedded
Robert,
It's supposed to be *my* job to ask embarrassing practical questions.
The answer, of course, is to provide a vehicle around which to hold
at-length discussions on whether, or not, the term emergence applies to
said phenomenon.
Silly. You should have known that.
--Doug
On Sat, Oct 10,
Robert:
House guests, but let me take a quick whack at this. Before the recent
epigenic revolution we focussed only on which genes we had, not on the
arrangement of timing of events during development. It's example, I think, of
the heurism of the emergentist viewpoint.
Nick
Nicholas S.
Doug,
Thou protests too much.
You know the story of the two monks from an austere order that were walking in
the woods and encountered a damsel at the banks of a muddy brook. One of the
monks picked her up and put her across the brook. The damsel thanked him and
the two monks continued on
Yet another attempt to make OSX available on generic PC hardware.
This one is trying really hard though, and in the era of
virtualization, may actually win.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10372246-1.html
Lots of noise on the net about it: http://tinyurl.com/yhplse6
I'm not sure how
Robert's original question was What's the point of determining whether a
phenomenon is emergent or not? I don't think there is a point. That's not
the issue. The point of the discussion is that some properties seem to exist
at a macro-level (every time I use that word now, I worry that Glen will
Hang on, Owen, There is an excluded middle, here:
OD wrote = hate to say it but as much as I despise the flower child
philosophic, I've gotten some interesting ideas out of the book. The
difficulty is the signal to noise ratio is pretty poor.= OD wrote
John Searle? Flower Child?
All,
Following wimsatt, the puffiness of pancakes is emergent because it depends
on the order of mixing the ingredients. You mix the dry ingredients together,
you mix the set incredients together and THEN you mix the wet with the dry.
Similarly, with a bread maker you dont want to mix the
To Nick: How about replying to the core observation on a theoretical
approach? Forgive the sentence saying the book is OK.
Simply stated, we may come to a better understanding of the notion of
emergence by discussion, but we will not take an important step
forward without formalization.
___
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www.snappermail.com
.. Original Message ...
On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 11:08:04 -0600 Nicholas Thompson
nickthomp...@earthlink.net wrote:
Robert:
House guests, but let me take a quick whack at this. Before the recent
epigenic revolution we focussed only on which
On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 7:58 AM, Robert Holmes rob...@holmesacosta.comwrote:
What's the point of determining whether a phenomenon is emergent or not?
What useful stuff can I actually do with that knowledge?
In other areas of my life, classification can have actionable consequences.
For
I read this entire thread to my psittascenes. None of them had much to say,
except, of course, one of the African Greys.
After a moment of deliberation (Opus, the Grey *never* speaks without
deliberation) he fixed me with one of his beady little eyes and said, Ow,
Butthead.
I emerged from the
Geeze!
Why try so hard, when there are good http://www.ubuntu.com/,
viablehttp://www.kubuntu.org/
alternatives http://wiki.centos.org/?
--Doug
On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 11:36 AM, Owen Densmore o...@backspaces.net wrote:
Yet another attempt to make OSX available on generic PC hardware. This one
Great!
We seem to agree that models are important. You are keener on mathematical
models ... that is models that are accompanied by a mathematical
formalization ... I am keener than you about models like natural
selection., where the model space is some phenomenon one feels one
understands
To counter:
Competition Is Good!
More deep, penetrating comments below.
On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 5:37 PM, Owen Densmore o...@backspaces.net wrote:
On Oct 10, 2009, at 4:33 PM, Douglas Roberts wrote:
Geeze!
Why try so hard, when there are good http://www.ubuntu.com/,
I'll buy that: the particular model space may not have to be a single
one. And our readings hopefully will lead to the good ones.
A model does, however, have to satisfy Timothy Cowers's notion of
abstraction: that after the intuition drives you to an abstraction,
you can cut the cord to
But let's not forget that Linux users are hopelessly optimistic about
hardware support...*http://xkcd.org/644*
-- Robert
On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 6:00 PM, Douglas Roberts d...@parrot-farm.netwrote:
To counter:
Competition Is Good!
More deep, penetrating comments below.
On Sat, Oct 10,
Wow, I post a question, go on a 6-hour hike and this is what I come back
to...
I still don't feel that I've got a straight answer to my question, other
than Doug's (which I suspect is the most accurate) and Russ's (which I
really hope isn't true). So let me try again: once I've established that a
Ask me some time how much homework I had to do when purchasing the hardware
for my new Linux home entertainment system...
But then good news: Nvidia 8200 chipsets kick ass and have good Linux
support (ASUS M73N78-VM MB). Bullet-proof wireless -N micro-ATX box, AMD
3.0 GHx dual-core processor, 4
Robert,
Just FYI: You did not get an answer to your question (other than mine,
FWIW).
Please keep pushing for one, though. I want to hear the answer myself.
Don't let them bog you down in words. Settle for nothing less than an
actual, concise, precise answer to your very concise, precise, and
Has anyone read this?
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/octonions/conway_smith/
I've not read enough Conway and I'm not sure where to start!
-- Owen
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St.
My wife is doing her PhD in Human Organizational Learning and I have been
flicking through the papers she has to read for an upcoming complexity
class. I came across a surprisingly impressive review paper that has (I'm
guessing) one of the earliest (if not the earliest) uses of the phrase
complex
1960.
An integrated project for the design and appraisal of mechanized
decision-making control … http://www.jstor.org/stable/3007180
KD Tocher - OR, 1960 - jstor.org
*...* will be established on simulation models, but there is a theoretical
interest in
the necessary conditions for such a
On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 08:21:08PM -0600, Robert Holmes wrote:
Wow, I post a question, go on a 6-hour hike and this is what I come back
to...
I still don't feel that I've got a straight answer to my question, other
than Doug's (which I suspect is the most accurate) and Russ's (which I
Damn, you beat me. I had 1968 for William Buckley's Society as a Complex
Adaptive System* http://tinyurl.com/yfrbaqm*
It's an interesting read - and the depressing thing is that it shows how
little the theory has progressed in 41 years (41! count them!).
-- R
P.S. Anyone who tried Wikipedia
As a developer of software on Linux, I would like to support a Mac OSX
port, just as I do a Windows port (via Cygwin). The Window I use runs
on a VMWare partition. I would like the same of a Mac OS without
having to purchase a very expensive computer to do it. Current Mac
offerings are more than
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