Glen writes:
< Some lefties are like me, squawking because they're out of tune and will get
to practical action sooner or later. But, yeah, some are just yelling Get Off
My Lawn! >
I recall arguing with someone about the tradeoff between health care for
oneself or for one's child. That someh
Take it or have it taken from you.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Friam On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$
> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2021 1:09 PM
> To: friam@redfish.com
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Moral collapse and state failure
>
> OK. So cooperation is the foundatio
: Friam On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2021 1:09 PM
To: friam@redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Moral collapse and state failure
OK. So cooperation is the foundation. As ContraPoints goes through her essay,
she makes the point that morality is an envy/resentment construct where those
tion. There's always a big dog to take down. So in the end one
> can opt for Realpolitik or some bible thumping. There was never any morality.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Friam On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels
> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2021 11:26 AM
> To: The Friday
al Message-
From: Friam On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2021 11:26 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Moral collapse and state failure
Sure. I'm just trying to get the "pathological" aspect of personality defi
an it be called immoral except
by using another integrated world view?
-Original Message-
From: Friam On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2021 11:17 AM
To: friam@redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Moral collapse and state failure
The problem is that, in the case of editing
Daniels
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2021 1:55 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Moral collapse and state failure
What if they are integrated high-functioning sociopaths? By a common-sense
evaluation, Trump is high-functioning. He became presiden
PM
To: friam@redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Moral collapse and state failure
Yes, if you squint. The trick is that both opaque and transparent ML algorithms
are *engineered*. So, rather than intension/extension, a better frame would be
the gen-phen map, forward-inverse map. The opaque boxes are
is high-functioning. He became president, after all.
> People that seek power tend to be the sort of people that probably shouldn’t
> have it, in my experience.
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam *On Behalf Of *Frank Wimberly
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 10, 2021 10:33 AM
> *To:* T
Wimberly
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2021 10:33 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Moral collapse and state failure
Psychologists I know would call a person whose behavior is consistent with his
self description is integrated rather than moral. "Integrate
; Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2021 1:23 PM
> To: friam@redfish.com
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Moral collapse and state failure
>
> Yeah, it was long. I only got through half of it during my workout this
> morning.
>
> I suppose it's right to say that the normative definition of m
; To: friam@redfish.com
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Moral collapse and state failure
>
> Yeah, it was long. I only got through half of it during my workout this
> morning.
>
> I suppose it's right to say that the normative definition of moral would
> exclude Trump (or p
ent: Tuesday, August 10, 2021 1:33 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Moral collapse and state failure
Psychologists I know would call a person whose behavior is consistent with his
self description is integrated rather than moral. "Integrated&qu
...@gmail.com
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
-Original Message-
From: Friam On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2021 1:23 PM
To: friam@redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Moral collapse and state failure
Yeah, it was long. I only got through half of it during my work
Psychologists I know would call a person whose behavior is consistent with
his self description is integrated rather than moral. "Integrated" is
usually a good quality but not if someone happily describes himself in
sociopathic terms. Trump is, in my non-professional opinion, an amoral,
narcissis
Yeah, it was long. I only got through half of it during my workout this morning.
I suppose it's right to say that the normative definition of moral would
exclude Trump (or people like him). But if we stuck to your idea that a
particular morality be *expressible*. (FWIW, I think the extra qualifi
sm, except when important topics
>> like beer arise.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Friam On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2021 7:45 AM
>> To: friam@redfish.com
>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Moral collapse and state failure
&g
ent: Tuesday, August 10, 2021 7:45 AM
> To: friam@redfish.com
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Moral collapse and state failure
>
> It's always unclear to me by what people mean by "moral". But this paper
> covers it fairly well, I think:
>
> The search for predictable m
alf Of u?l? ?>$
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2021 7:45 AM
To: friam@redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Moral collapse and state failure
It's always unclear to me by what people mean by "moral". But this paper covers
it fairly well, I think:
The search for predictable moral partne
les immoral
>> authoritarian rulers to grab power? Or a combination of both?
>>
>> -J.
>>
>>
>> Original message
>> From: Pieter Steenekamp
>> Date: 8/8/21 20:26 (GMT+01:00)
>> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffe
Steve,
Thanks for your hopes for us in South Africa.
I try not to be judgemental, so I will just say that South Africa's "Right
Wing"'s world view differs radically from mine and in my opinion if their
ideas are implemented it would lead to disaster. Fortunately for us they
have negligible clout
Pieter -
> Your "The Wrong (formerly Right) Wing in the US"
> reminds me of the quote by Larry Elder:
> "Conservatives consider liberals well-intentioned, but misguided.
> Liberals consider conservatives not only wrong, but really, really bad
> people."
This smells strongly of a Strawman charact
country by undermining democratic institutions
>> or is it the other way round: the economy (and therefore the country) is
>> already broken and institutions are weak, which enables immoral
>> authoritarian rulers to grab power? Or a combination of both?
>>
>> -J.
>>
>
horitarian rulers to grab power? Or a combination of both?
>
> -J.
>
>
> ---- Original message
> From: Pieter Steenekamp
>
> Date: 8/8/21 20:26 (GMT+01:00)
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Moral collapse
20:26 (GMT+01:00)
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Moral collapse and state failure
>
> Well, I'm from South Africa, and we have been close to moral collapse
> and IMO that could have led to our state failing.
>
> If you as
enables immoral authoritarian rulers to grab
power? Or a combination of both? -J.
Original message From: Pieter Steenekamp
Date: 8/8/21 20:26 (GMT+01:00) To: The Friday
Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re:
[FRIAM] Moral collapse and state failure Well, I'm
Well, I'm from South Africa, and we have been close to moral collapse and
IMO that could have led to our state failing.
If you ask ten South Africans you'll get maybe twenty opinions, below is
just my very brief view of what has been and what is happening in South
Africa.
South Africa became demo
This paper from last year argues that moral collapse and state failure are
linked. Would you
agree?https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpos.2020.568704/full-J.- . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. . .-. .
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