Re: [Full-disclosure] [inbox] Re: Supporters urge halt to, hacker's, extradition to US

Michael Krymson wrote: > I just wanted to let you know I know a tiny bit how the American system > works (I live here). "Beyond reasonable doubt" is typically a murder trial > thing. That is incorrect. You, again, appear to misunderstand what "beyond reasonable doubt" means. Beyond reasonable dou

Re: [Full-disclosure] [inbox] Re: Supporters urge halt to, hacker's, extradition to US

Sorry, I fail at email and at first didn't send it to FD, and when I thought I had, I munged the address. Go me! I'll see how badly I can bungle this up further by pulling this back to FD. Is it ok if I leave the post intact at the bottom? :) I just wanted to let you know I know a tiny bit how the

Re: [Full-disclosure] [inbox] Re: Supporters urge halt to, hacker's, extradition to US

mcwidget wrote: > This has happened in the UK a few years back - > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4721723.stm. A guy was fined £500, > given a 12 months conditional discharge and had his laptop and wireless card > confiscated for repeatedly using someone's unsecured wireless with his > lapt

Re: [Full-disclosure] [inbox] Re: Supporters urge halt to, hacker's, extradition to US

you're not getting our gary!!! leave our gary alone!!! he's not coming to your stupid u.s, so GTFO. you're not getting our gary!!! leave our gary alone!!! he's not coming to your stupid u.s, so GTFO. you're not getting our gary!!! leave our gary alone!!! he's not coming to your stupid u.s, so GTFO.

Re: [Full-disclosure] [inbox] Re: Supporters urge halt to, hacker's, extradition to US

On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 4:42 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 23:23:34 EDT, Eliah Kagan said: > > > Has anyone ever been prosecuted for using unsecured wireless for legal > purposes? > > Not to my knowledge - mostly because all the white hats are too damned busy > dealing with

Re: [Full-disclosure] [inbox] Re: Supporters urge halt to, hacker's, extradition to US

On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 23:23:34 EDT, Eliah Kagan said: > Has anyone ever been prosecuted for using unsecured wireless for legal > purposes? Not to my knowledge - mostly because all the white hats are too damned busy dealing with bigger issues. I doubt that we, as a society, can ever get to the poin

Re: [Full-disclosure] [inbox] Re: Supporters urge halt to, hacker's, extradition to US

On Wed, 2008-10-01 at 09:21, Exibar wrote: > excuse me? You're attempt at insults are pointed wrongly. > > I've read the legal brief on his case, the UK documents on his case > too, he's ADMITTED guilt. In my book that's enough to call him a > criminal, he should be arrested and tried in a c

Re: [Full-disclosure] [inbox] Re: Supporters urge halt to, hacker's, extradition to US

Valdis Kletnieks wrote: > In the US, there have been a number of successful prosecutions in cases where > people used an unsecured wireless access point to launch attacks. You'd > probably need to show *all* of the following: > > 1) That it was unsecured. > 2) That it was *intentionally* unsecured

Re: [Full-disclosure] [inbox] Re: Supporters urge halt to, hacker's, extradition to US

On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 20:47:42 CDT, Miller Grey said: > Legally, is there any precedence that private systems owned by the > government are public domain? At least in the US, systems owned by the federal government are considered "protected" under the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act of 1986 (18 USC 103

Re: [Full-disclosure] [inbox] Re: Supporters urge halt to, hacker's, extradition to US

Let's hope this Jacqui Smith chick stops him going... hopefully her cyber security advisors are reading the mailing lists. On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 2:47 AM, Miller Grey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > This whole thing has been blown way out of proportion...c'est tout > __

Re: [Full-disclosure] [inbox] Re: Supporters urge halt to, hacker's, extradition to US

Legally, is there any precedence that private systems owned by the government are public domain? Furthermore, has there ever been any legal precedent that any private system, if left unsecured, is in the public domain? Either way, I hark back to: http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/09/brits-us

Re: [Full-disclosure] [inbox] Re: Supporters urge halt to, hacker's, extradition to US

Dead right, you got your systems accessed by 'the public', because the systems were 'public domain'. Your systems were public domain, get over yourselves and stop arguing about it. On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 2:25 AM, Miller Grey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Wrong...dead wrong. > > On Tue, Sep 30, 200

Re: [Full-disclosure] [inbox] Re: Supporters urge halt to, hacker's, extradition to US

Wrong...dead wrong. On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 2:10 PM, n3td3v <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 8:07 PM, offbitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 1:48 PM, n3td3v <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >> The systems were 'public domain' because the do

Re: [Full-disclosure] [inbox] Re: Supporters urge halt to, hacker's, extradition to US

Exibar _ From: Noel Butler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 5:28 PM To: Exibar Cc: full-disclosure@lists.grok.org.uk; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] [inbox] Re: Supporters urge halt to,hacker's, extradition to US On Wed, 2008-10-01 a

Re: [Full-disclosure] [inbox] Re: Supporters urge halt to, hacker's, extradition to US

On Wed, 2008-10-01 at 00:03, Exibar wrote: > Look, Mckinnon broke into the computer systems. Under his own admission he > ran scripts to help him do this. Some of those scripts crashed systems. He > possibly deleted files and what-not in his travels, either willfully or not, > doesn't really

Re: [Full-disclosure] [inbox] Re: Supporters urge halt to, hacker's, extradition to US

I wrote: >> When a http indexing bot (like those used by Google, for instance) >> comes upon a hyperlink into a page that is http authenticated, does it >> follow the link and try a blank password, or does it not follow the >> link? Is there some accepted standard for that? >> >> If it is considere

Re: [Full-disclosure] [inbox] Re: Supporters urge halt to, hacker's, extradition to US

On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 9:30 PM, Eliah Kagan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Here's a question, relating to the PUBLIC DOMAIN issue. I don't know > the answer, but it seems relevant. > > When a http indexing bot (like those used by Google, for instance) > comes upon a hyperlink into a page that is htt

Re: [Full-disclosure] [inbox] Re: Supporters urge halt to, hacker's, extradition to US

On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:03:07 EDT, Eliah Kagan said: > Once the three-way handshake is complete, the client is in the > server's house, and may go into any room (this is application-layer > now) not forbidden by a security mechanism or law of the land. One > would be hard pressed to argue that an a

Re: [Full-disclosure] [inbox] Re: Supporters urge halt to, hacker's, extradition to US

On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 16:30:09 EDT, Eliah Kagan said: > When a http indexing bot (like those used by Google, for instance) > comes upon a hyperlink into a page that is http authenticated, does it > follow the link and try a blank password, or does it not follow the > link? Is there some accepted stan

Re: [Full-disclosure] [inbox] Re: Supporters urge halt to, hacker's, extradition to US

Michael Krymson wrote: > Wow, this whole discussion with a troll has gone on far longer than it ever > should have. So basically what you're saying is that we should all shut up and not talk about an actual issue, and that trolls should be trolls and stay away from discussion of actual issues? Oh

Re: [Full-disclosure] [inbox] Re: Supporters urge halt to, hacker's, extradition to US

If you say something loud enough and long enough, that Does Not make it true. On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 2:39 PM, n3td3v <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 8:32 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 19:48:51 BST, n3td3v said: > >> The systems were 'public domain'

Re: [Full-disclosure] [inbox] Re: Supporters urge halt to, hacker's, extradition to US

On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 8:55 PM, Michael Krymson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Remind me next time you accidentally leave your car door or house door > unlocked that it is public domain. We're not talking about cars and houses, we're talking about the internet.

Re: [Full-disclosure] [inbox] Re: Supporters urge halt to, hacker's, extradition to US

Here's a question, relating to the PUBLIC DOMAIN issue. I don't know the answer, but it seems relevant. When a http indexing bot (like those used by Google, for instance) comes upon a hyperlink into a page that is http authenticated, does it follow the link and try a blank password, or does it not

Re: [Full-disclosure] [inbox] Re: Supporters urge halt to, hacker's, extradition to US

Wow, this whole discussion with a troll has gone on far longer than it ever should have. Remind me next time you accidentally leave your car door or house door unlocked that it is public domain. Even if I go in, accidentally knock over a plant, use your loo, and have a cookie from your cookie jar,

Re: [Full-disclosure] [inbox] Re: Supporters urge halt to, hacker's, extradition to US

On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 8:32 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 19:48:51 BST, n3td3v said: >> The systems were 'public domain' because the door was open. > > Does your house become 'public domain' because the door failed to properly > latch when you left, and a subsequent gust of

Re: [Full-disclosure] [inbox] Re: Supporters urge halt to, hacker's, extradition to US

On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 19:48:51 BST, n3td3v said: > The systems were 'public domain' because the door was open. Does your house become 'public domain' because the door failed to properly latch when you left, and a subsequent gust of wind blows it open? Under those conditions, do you care if all and

Re: [Full-disclosure] [inbox] Re: Supporters urge halt to, hacker's, extradition to US

On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 1:48 PM, n3td3v <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > The systems were 'public domain' because the door was open. > > > Proof or GTFO. ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter

Re: [Full-disclosure] [inbox] Re: Supporters urge halt to, hacker's, extradition to US

On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 8:07 PM, offbitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 1:48 PM, n3td3v <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> >> >> The systems were 'public domain' because the door was open. >> >> > > > Proof or GTFO. > No passwords were set = public domain.

Re: [Full-disclosure] [inbox] Re: Supporters urge halt to, hacker's, extradition to US

On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 3:03 PM, Exibar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Look, Mckinnon broke into the computer systems. He never broke in, the door was open, he walked in. > Under his own admission he ran scripts to help him do this. Some of those > scripts crashed systems. He > possibly deleted

Re: [Full-disclosure] [inbox] Re: Supporters urge halt to, hacker's, extradition to US

ect: Re: [Full-disclosure] [inbox] Re: Supporters urge halt to, hacker's,extradition to US nobody could be so stupid to leave their car door unlocked, ::blush:: the u.s military did, then gary mckinnon left a note on their wind screen wiper to say, look guys, you left your door unlocked, may

Re: [Full-disclosure] [inbox] Re: Supporters urge halt to, hacker's, extradition to US

On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 1:55 PM, nzerozero p <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I don't agree. > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 7:42 PM, n3td3v <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> nobody could be so stupid to leave their car door unlocked, ::blush:: > > Bullshit. Walk throughout a parking lot and try a couple d

Re: [Full-disclosure] [inbox] Re: Supporters urge halt to, hacker's, extradition to US

I couldn't agree more. The man committed a crime, in either country. He should be held accountable. I've also seen plenty of people claim the law was changed to prosecute him, that's simply not true either. http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/09/brits-us-passed.html Enough with the 60 years,

Re: [Full-disclosure] [inbox] Re: Supporters urge halt to, hacker's, extradition to US

On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 5:05 AM, Noel Butler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tue, 2008-09-30 at 09:42, n3td3v wrote: > > nobody could be so stupid to leave their car door unlocked, ::blush:: > the u.s military did, then gary mckinnon left a note on their wind > screen wiper to say, look guys, you l

Re: [Full-disclosure] [inbox] Re: Supporters urge halt to, hacker's, extradition to US

I don't agree. On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 7:42 PM, n3td3v <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > nobody could be so stupid to leave their car door unlocked, ::blush:: Bullshit. Walk throughout a parking lot and try a couple door handles, you'd most likely find more than you thought. > the u.s military

Re: [Full-disclosure] [inbox] Re: Supporters urge halt to, hacker's, extradition to US

t as human curiosity! Then again... I'm stupid. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of quispiam lepidus Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 9:25 PM To: Exibar Cc: full-disclosure@lists.grok.org.uk Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] [inbox] Re: Supporte

Re: [Full-disclosure] [inbox] Re: Supporters urge halt to, hacker's, extradition to US

Whilst I agree that criminal actions should be met with criminal consequences, 60 years for breaking (I use the term losely) into shittily protected systems is absurd. You do less time for murder in most places. I wonder, if he was an American citizen, would he have been charged with treason and e

Re: [Full-disclosure] [inbox] Re: Supporters urge halt to, hacker's, extradition to US

nobody could be so stupid to leave their car door unlocked, ::blush:: the u.s military did, then gary mckinnon left a note on their wind screen wiper to say, look guys, you left your door unlocked, maybe you should fix it. the u.s military come back to the car, and claim the inside of the car has

Re: [Full-disclosure] [inbox] Re: Supporters urge halt to, hacker's, extradition to US

So you guys are saying that if I forget my keys in my car and the door unlocked that it's not a crime to steal my car? It's not a crime to NOT lock your house, but it's still a crime to open that door and take that big screen tv if you're not the owner... Doesn't matter if he willfully caus

Re: [Full-disclosure] [inbox] Re: Supporters urge halt to hacker's, extradition to US

I wouldn't waste my time locking up a script kid for 60 years, Gary Mckinnon is a small fish in a big ocean, there are bigger fish to fry. Its the military's fault he got in, because they hadn't set any passwords for the systems. All the best, n3td3v On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 7:03 PM, Exibar <[EM

Re: [Full-disclosure] [inbox] Re: Supporters urge halt to hacker's, extradition to US

thanks for this amazing insight. you must be a 5 time cissp James Matthews wrote: > When you break into a system using an exploit there is a chance that > the shellcode will crash the system. > > On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 11:03 AM, Exibar <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > wrote: > >

Re: [Full-disclosure] [inbox] Re: Supporters urge halt to hacker's, extradition to US

7 :p On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 10:15 PM, rholgstad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > thanks for this amazing insight. you must be a 5 time cissp > > James Matthews wrote: > >> When you break into a system using an exploit there is a chance that the >> shellcode will crash the system. >> >> On Sun, Sep 2

Re: [Full-disclosure] [inbox] Re: Supporters urge halt to hacker's, extradition to US

When you break into a system using an exploit there is a chance that the shellcode will crash the system. On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 11:03 AM, Exibar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > McKinnon did cause damage: > > "The charges include one incident - shortly after the attacks on September > 11 2001 - wh

Re: [Full-disclosure] [inbox] Re: Supporters urge halt to hacker's, extradition to US

McKinnon did cause damage: "The charges include one incident - shortly after the attacks on September 11 2001 - which brought down a network of 300 computers at the Earle naval weapons station. Another raid apparently left 2,000 government machines in Washington inoperable." http://www.guardian.c