Is this wiki entry valid with regards to the section
How can I get color postscript/PNG output?
http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:faq-gschem#how_can_i_get_black_and_white
_postscript_png_output
I am running 1.6.1 and cannot find the entries or lines similar to
those mentioned. I
I'm using geda gschem 1.6.1 20100214
I have one real problem and one annoyance:
Real problem: I'm creating a symbol for spice netlisting that has two
slots. Of course, it has two parts, but only 2 pwr pins. When I change
the slots to slot=2, it gets two pin numbers right and two
From: geda-user-requ...@moria.seul.org
Subject: geda-user Digest, Vol 45, Issue 48
To: geda-user@moria.seul.org
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 07:51:50 -0500
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 12:48:10 +
From: Andy Fierman andyfier...@signality.co.uk
Subject: Re: gEDA-user: Getting new
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 00:56:34 +0100
From: Stefan Salewski m...@ssalewski.de
Subject: Re: gEDA-user: PCB: AutoRouter
To: gEDA user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org
Message-ID: 1258847794.4126.40.ca...@amd64-x2
Content-Type: text/plain
On Sun,
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 09:32:48 -0500 (EST)
From: myjunk stuff carzr...@optonline.net
Subject: Re: gEDA-user: PCB: AutoRouter (Stefan Salewski)
To: gEDA user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org
Message-ID:
I remember earlier on the mail list that someone commented that this
web site isn't accurate:
[1]http://pcb.gpleda.org/obtaining.html
In other words, cvs is no longer maintained, and only the git repos.
is up to date. Is this true? And if so, how can we get the web site
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 12:04:29 -0600
From: KURT PETERS petersk...@msn.com
Subject: gEDA-user: PCB latest no longer accurate? - git vs cvs
To: geda-user@moria.seul.org
Message-ID: snt107-w5291c35075c7f9501ec8aed8...@phx.gbl
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
From: geda-user-requ...@moria.seul.org
Subject: geda-user Digest, Vol 41, Issue 24
To: geda-user@moria.seul.org
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 12:00:01 -0400
Send geda-user mailing list submissions to
geda-user@moria.seul.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 10:02:49 -0400
From: DJ Delorie d...@delorie.com
Subject: Re: gEDA-user: pcb command options
To: geda-user@moria.seul.org
Message-ID: 200909151402.n8fe2npv008...@envy.delorie.com
What is the purpose of these options?
In general, PCB
KURT PETERS wrote:
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 19:05:03 -0600
From: Mark Johnson mrj...@shaw.ca
Subject: gEDA-user: can't plot time on x axis with KJWave
To: gEDA user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org
Message-ID: 4a7637bf.1020...@shaw.ca
; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
KURT PETERS wrote:
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 19:05:03 -0600
From: Mark Johnson mrj...@shaw.ca
Subject: gEDA-user: can't plot time on x axis with KJWave
To: gEDA user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org
Message-ID: 4a7637bf.1020
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 19:05:03 -0600
From: Mark Johnson mrj...@shaw.ca
Subject: gEDA-user: can't plot time on x axis with KJWave
To: gEDA user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org
Message-ID: 4a7637bf.1020...@shaw.ca
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
KJWaves needs the data to be saved in RAW format. If you add an
analysis using KJWaves, it will show the changes made to your netlist
in red. It should be everything it needs to read the analysis to
allow you to plot.
Kurt
Message: 10
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 18:44:49
Dan,
Is the model for the 1N4004 in the same directory as your Spice
netlist? I think you can also actually cut and paste the 1N4004 model
to the end of the spice netlist you're using as well.
Otherwise, I really can't help you there, since that's a
GnuCap/ngspice question.
on the left (using CTRL-click) to make
sure they're not plotted if you don't want them.
Let me know if that works for you.
Kurt
KURT PETERS wrote:
I had similar problems way back when so I wrote KJWaves. Have
you
tried that?
There's a tutorial for it on the ngspice web
Thanks,
I added GnuCap support a while ago, but since Gnucap doesn't store a
variable with both a real and imaginary part, the analysis is a little
less straight forward.
Kurt
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 21:48:46 +0200
From: Rub?n G?mez Antol?
example
To: gEDA user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org
Message-ID: 4a69d304.2020...@cdkkt.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
KURT PETERS wrote:
I had similar problems way back when so I wrote KJWaves. Have you
tried that?
There's
I had similar problems way back when so I wrote KJWaves. Have you
tried that?
There's a tutorial for it on the ngspice web site.
Kurt
--
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 15:42:10 -0700
From: Daniel B. Thurman d...@cdkkt.com
I'm not only for it; I think it should be DELETED, instead of just
deprecated. BTW, what would the process be for executing it when it's
deprecated. In other words, would the user get a message saying it's
deprecated and will go away (Deleted) some time in the future?
Kurt
Are these instructions getting uploaded to the wiki?
Kurt
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 23:42:19 -0400
From: Harry Eaton bump...@gmail.com
Subject: gEDA-user: autorouter fixes and enhancements
To: geda-user@moria.seul.org
Message-ID:
I've been thinking a bit about gEDA for open hardware lately, and
have a few thoughts that I was wondering if people on the list would
help me think through:
1) open hardware implies (to me anyways) that someone has produced a
PCB and makes available the schematics, layout,
When I look at the background of schematics output by the png writer
from Gschem 1.5.2 it looks kind of like a dingy gray instead of pure
white (especially when looked at as an import in WinWord). Does
anyone else notice this and, if so, how would I get a true white
background?
: 200905220703.42586.pe...@peter-b.co.uk
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15
On Thursday 21 May 2009 23:11:57 KURT PETERS wrote:
Peter,
You would not BELIEVE how ungodly ugly that (display-color-map
'((background #ff))) in my gschemrc makes gschem's screen.
It's
Peter,
You would not BELIEVE how ungodly ugly that (display-color-map '((background
#ff))) in my gschemrc
makes gschem's screen. It's the grid lines that are doing it in, but the text
is unreadable.
and, frankly, the screen is unreadable. I'm using 1.5.2 now.
I did notice that now
Well, I got it compiled while working around those errors mentioned in
my previous post.
Now, when starting gschem, I get:
In unknown file:
?: 0* [primitive-load /home/kurt/.gEDA/gschemrc
is the window.
Did the authors deprecate gschemrc?
Kurt
I was looking at my new pcb directory and noticed both a pcb-newlib
and a newlib directory.
What's the difference?
Also, this
http://www.geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:pcb_tips
doesn't say anything about the pcb-newlib directory.
Kurt
-user: Still compiling 1.5.2
To: gEDA user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org
Message-ID: 1242591750.26629.5.ca...@amd64-x2
Content-Type: text/plain
On Sun, 2009-05-17 at 13:56 -0600, KURT PETERS wrote:
Again, you sent your text twice...
Well, I got it compiled
of that... or better yet, it was somewhere in the install do
cumentation.
Kurt
KURT PETERS wrote:
Criminy... I have to admit, I couldn't even get the (1.5) source to
compile in Linux Kubuntu recently... so if people are saying it's easy
for those not in the know to work on gEDA source code, they're
Criminy... I have to admit, I couldn't even get the (1.5) source to
compile in Linux Kubuntu recently... so if people are saying it's easy
for those not in the know to work on gEDA source code, they're just
delusional. Of course, I am now going to try to use git and compile
that
Wish I had thought of that... or better yet, it was somewhere in the install do
cumentation.
Kurt
KURT PETERS wrote:
Criminy... I have to admit, I couldn't even get the (1.5) source to
compile in Linux Kubuntu recently... so if people are saying it's easy
for those not in the know
Anyone have any comments on Fritzing?
[1]http://archive.fritzing.org/
Kurt
References
1. http://archive.fritzing.org/
___
geda-user mailing list
geda-user@moria.seul.org
http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Reference: Compile from source: try 2
I still can't seem to get the source code compiled... Would it help
if I review the exact procedure I used?
Here's the error message again during sudo make install:
I can make configure, but when I make install, I get this error. Any
Since my last email, I'm not trying the Makefile included with the
source code and am trying to install 1.5.2 in Kubuntu 8.1.0 still.
I can make configure, but when I make install, I get this error. Any
thoughts?
I'm not sure what olib.c is or what the error means. I did
It would be nice to have some defaults already in place like the
permittivity for FR4 and standard layer thicknesses built-in for the
user. Metal thicknesses and materials are also pretty standard. A
more sophisticated user might have to enter in his own parameters.
Additionally,
Just curious, I wonder what's inside the blue one?
:-)
Kurt
--
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 11:53:44 -0500
From: Dave McGuire mcgu...@neurotica.com
Subject: Re: gEDA-user: electrolytic capacitors
To: gEDA user mailing list
mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Hi Kurt,
On Freitag, 21. November 2008, KURT PETERS wrote:
Go to sourceforge.net and try KJWaves. I wrote it in Java, so it
will work on almost any platform using JRE 1.5 and above
Go to sourceforge.net and try KJWaves. I wrote it in Java, so it will work
on almost any platform using JRE 1.5 and above.
It is also referenced on the ngspice web site as a recommended waveform
viewer and there should be a link there. Make sure you read the INSTALL and
README included with
I'm not sure what you mean by #1, but you can add multiple traces to one
plot by clicking on the appropriate checkbox when selecting waveforms to
plot. In number 2, those are internal node annotations and you need to talk
to an ngspice guru for more info on that.
Regards,
Kurt
Message: 6
If you're using kjwaves to run your spice model in ngspice, then it IS run
in batch mode. You should add all your analysis using the various tabs and
then run the whole file. Your results will then be in one file, but that
still doesn't mean you can add disparate x-axis, you'll just have to
That's a toughy, since they would likely have different x-axes scales, etc.
You could try checking the box for adding to the current plot, but I'm not
sure of what the results would be.
Kurt
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:09:24 +0300
From: Yaniv Hachamo [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:
Are you choosing Mag for magnitude or real or imag or ??? when you're
plotting a particular axis? Mag will, by defiinition, do
sqrt(real^2+imag^2), which is positive. I think that was submitted as a bug
on sourceforge, when, in fact, it's not... just poor choice on the user's
part. See the
around edges, has
already proven to be useful.
P- I'm glad to hear that!
If you could at least resolve points 35 that would make kjwaves
useful for my everyday work.
Cheers,
-r.
On Dec 31, 2007 6:57 PM, KURT PETERS [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I've just released a new version of KJWaves (available
Dimitri,
Yes, Sun's JRE higher than or equal to 1.5 is required. It's possible
that although you installed 1.6, your default is still gjc. I never have
had a problem installing any Sun Java Virtual Machine and I've used Kubuntu,
Mepis, and Suse. I can't speak for plain Debian. Do a which
I've just released a new version of KJWaves (available on sourceforge.net).
It has the ability to read GnuCap files (requested by Al Davis) and a fix to
the way log plots are displayed.
Kurt Peters - Developer
___
geda-user mailing list
geda-user
; format=flowed
KURT PETERS wrote:
There are no dependency problems.This is, once again, non-issues for
all
I think that is a bold statement.
but the most crazy FOSS zeolots, which, apparently, you're one of...
As for GnuCap support...
I have seen no request for GnuCap support on the sourceforge
.
Kurt
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 19:56:20 -0500
From: al davis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: gEDA-user: 2 make errors installing gwave
To: geda-user@moria.seul.org
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
On Friday 30 November 2007, KURT PETERS wrote
30 November 2007, KURT PETERS wrote:
Really sad to think you just crashed your OS trying to
install gwave, when you could have just been using KJWaves...
Does it work with gnucap yet?
Did you fix the dependency on a particular version of Java
Really sad to think you just crashed your OS trying to install gwave, when
you could have just been using KJWaves...
Kurt
___
geda-user mailing list
geda-user@moria.seul.org
http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
.
Regards,
Kurt
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 20:30:14 -0500
From: al davis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: gEDA-user: Simulation troubles ...
To: geda-user@moria.seul.org
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Tuesday 06 November 2007 19:20, KURT PETERS wrote
Al,
With respect to:
We do need a serious viewer for analog simulation data. The best we
have is gwave, which has compiling issues, and it still does only
waves. gtkwave does not do analog in a reasonable way, or handle any
file format used by any analog simulator.
Have you even TRIED
of
doing things, and I'm failing miserably.
First off, I can't get gspiceui to compile, no matter what I try. It
seems Mandriva is simply incompatible, as I recall running into this
problem several times already in the past.
No problem, I downladed Kurt Peters' KJWaves, and it seems like the tool
I
build trouble
To: gEDA user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Content-Type: text/plain
Op dinsdag 30-10-2007 om 19:39 uur [tijdzone -0500], schreef KURT
PETERS:
That's why I wrote KJWaves; I never got GSpiceUI to compile. I suggest you
might want to give it a try
Be careful about what symbol you choose for your diode in gschem. I've
found pin 1 and pin 2 don't always connect to cathode/anode like one would
think they would. In other words, the multiple diode symbols are not
consistent.
Kurt
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 11:03:24 -0600
From:
When's the next official release of PCB going to be? It's tough working
with people who only will use official releases when I'm using CVS
release(s).
Kurt
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 20:43:55 -0400
From: DJ Delorie [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: gEDA-user: PCB error - latest release on
Those reasons are why I created kjwaves. Give it a try. It's on
souceforge.net under kjwaves and is written in java so it will support any
platform. I've had quite a few downloads and good responses from users.
It's also internationalized in Spanish, German, Greek, and English.
Kurt
Thanks,
My Univ installs geda on our remote Solaris machines, which my student
access with either cyg/win or xwin32. The IT dept only does updates when
school's out of session, ie, between semesters and summer break.
Therefore it would be nice to get a new version around those times. This
Just curious - I know you just had another code sprint / freedaug meeting;
does that usual correspond with a formal code/version release? Is there a
set time table or metrics on when the suite will have a formal version
upgrade?
Regards,
Kurt
I'm for making it the standard. I usually cut and paste common symbols
like Resistors and Caps and changing the refdes to a X? will be a lot more
predictable then letting refdes renum choose.
Regards,
Kurt
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 09:52:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Stuart Brorson [EMAIL
I really like the tabs as well. Maybe it's possible to change the font size
to shrink them a little if people think they're too big?
Regards,
Kurt
[snip]
There is yet another page-navigation metaphor available to us.. the
tabbed notebook, but to do this properly (as I discovered over the
I use the page manager now, but something that would reduce key/mouse clicks
would be nice (I type 'PM' in the window to see the page manager). It's
nice having the indicator to tell which pages changed.
Regards,
Kurt
___
geda-user mailing list
Try KJWaves (on sourceforge). The graphing routine allows you to select the
Real or Imaginary part of any signal to place on any axis of a graph. It
should do what you want. You just have to get your sim. ready to run on
ngspice.
Kurt
Wen wrote:
Hi list,
I am going to do Equivalent
I've already begun. I wish there was a footprint viewer app
which would just display one footprint file with variable mag,
the way gerb does for gerbers. That way, I could quickly download
and look at each footprint in detail.
If wishes were horses... :)
There is one, called PCB. Just load
I didn't see any notes about how to make rectangular instead of round holes.
Is there an easy way to do this? In my current board I have some pretty
huge round holes when a nice small rectangle would have worked nicely. Is
this something that's hard for board houses to make?
Regards,
Kurt
I found your thoughts on probes interesting. For about 6 months, I've been
using my own current (Ammeter) meter symbol. I've included it below. It
allows me to easily find the name in KJWaves to include in graphing.
Kurt
Hi Stuart and all,
On Saturday 10 March 2007 03:26, Stuart Brorson
I am doing only a two-layer board with three layers per group. In other
words the preferences for layers looks something like this:
grp 1 2 3 4 5 6
soldtrace x
pwrgndsdx
something x
comptracex
pwrgndcmp x
somethincp x
solder x
component
I'm running gsch2pcb 1.5 on Solaris for one design and cannot get it to
produce a .net netlist. Please see the output below. Regards,
Kurt
gsch2pcb tusharproj -v
Running command:
gnetlist -g pcbpins -o fortusharout.cmd fortushar_1.sch
gEDA/gnetlist version 20061020
up.
Additionally, I noticed the title-bar doesn't put the title of the file
(it's Unnamed) when you start pcb that way, as well.
Regards,
Kurt
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 07:56:11 -0500
From: KURT PETERS [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: gEDA-user: RE: pcb-20070208 snapshot
To: geda-user
Dan,
I noticed kind of an annoying feature with this new version -- I use gtk
default install. When I press o to update rats nest, it seems PCB now
brings the log window to the foreground. Likewise, 'f' brings up the
netlist window. As you can imaging this is particularly annoying because
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: gEDA-user: PCB autoroute
To: gEDA user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
--- KURT PETERS [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm trying to autoroute only a selected group of
rats. I selected them
I'm trying to autoroute only a selected group of rats. I selected them
using SHIFT-click, and tried to autoroute selected rats (ALT-R).
I get the message: The rats nest is stale! Aborting autoroute.
So... I pressed O, and tried again. Again, I got the same message. What am
I doing wrong?
I'm sure someone else has noticed this. I'm using one of the latest CVS
releases (December-ish) and noticed that the grid dots only show up on one
side of the board. Does anyone else notice this? Is this on the bug
list?
Regards,
Kurt
___
I am trying to draw a rectangle that directly connects with a pad.
Unfortunately, PCB puts a keep-out region around each pad, forcing me to go
back and draw a line around the pad to fill in the space. Is there a way to
temporarily turn off the clearance around a pad? I tried SHIFT-K and the
David, this is way off topic. But I noticed that your traces seem to change
sizes at the silk-screen for the Brown ones (Vcc Comp). Is there any
particular reason that you do that?
Regards,
Kurt
___
Message: 3
Date: 11 Jan 2007 23:52:17 +0100
From: David Kuehling [EMAIL
I'm trying to do a simple NPN BJT model in gschem for use with ngspice. I
am using gnetlist -v -o testnpn.CIR -g spice-sdb testnpn.sch .
I have filled in the following for the NPN transistor in gschem:
device: NPN
refdes: Q1
value: FC1134
model: TF=8U
model-name FC1134
This ALMOST works when
Stuart,
Thanks for the update. I will try to get the CVS version tonight. I
always dread doing that because the update process is not the clearest in my
mind-- but I digress
The final change I made to the device attribute was actually a last act
of desperation; it wasn't like that from
DJ,
It seems that you are advocating for all newlibs to be in a personal
library. I don't necessarily have a problem with that, but that kind of
would destroy a naming convention or two (hyperbole), unless gsch2pcb and
pcb really get the prioritization right as you suggested, possibly using
What, exactly, does this mean?
Bad idea, since we're planning on moving the M4 step to build time in
the future, making every footprint a newlib style.
Some of the M4's are not-so-great, so if this means that the M4's will be
converted to newlib, thus essentially forcing users to use the
Werner,
See answers below:
Hi Kurt,
On Sunday 24 December 2006 19:52, KURT PETERS wrote:
I have to admit, the attributes dialog is a little bit of a problem
in the new (cvs) gschem. It is modal (in that you cannot operate
in the main gschem window while it is open), but it can be hidden
I have to admit, the attributes dialog is a little bit of a problem in the
new (cvs) gschem. It is modal (in that you cannot operate in the main
gschem window while it is open), but it can be hidden behind gschem. This
led me to think gschem hung, when, in fact, I just had the attributes
As luck would have it, I can't seem to get it to NOT use the m4's first.
Does anyone know how to get it to not even search for the m4's?
Kurt
___
geda-user mailing list
geda-user@moria.seul.org
I am using the suggested project file invocation of gsch2pcb which allows
it to succesfully find both m4 and newlib footprints:
schematics mnaxbow_1.sch mnaxbow_2.sch
elements-dir /usr/local/share/geda/share/pcb/newlib
m4-pcbdir /usr/local/share/geda/share/pcb/m4
output-name mnaxbowout
Ales,
Now that I have had a chance to play with the new feature of gschem
starting with the title block, I can say that there are times when it's not
appropriate: for instance, when trying to create a symbol. Is there any way
for it to look at the .extension you are starting it with and if
Just wanted to mention a slight, insignificant bug to whomever is coding
gsch2pcb:
...when it gives the final instructions it says:
Next step:
1. Run pcb on your file mnaxbowout.pcb.
You will find all your footprints in a bundle ready for you to place
or disperse with File - Disperse all
Ales,
I just re-checked out the latest gschem and installed from cvs.
Just checking, but do you now have it automatically start up with a title
block B? That's pretty cool if you did... If you didn't, then, how come it
started up that way? :-)
I like the new way the components are added,
On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 12:35:13 -0500
DJ Delorie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Are there any pcb prototyping manufactures that sponsor PCB/gEDA.
The folks at 4pcb.com were very helpful when I was working on fixing
the gerber exporter. Their tech guys answered many emails and
explained their end
OK, I tried it again. I'm showing my env variables, etc as well as the
error. Once again, libgeda compiled fine, but utils and gschem didn't.
This is the make gschem error:
then mv -f .deps/i_basic.Tpo .deps/i_basic.Po; else rm -f
.deps/i_basic.Tpo; exit 1; fi
i_basic.c: In function
Do you have an older version of gEDA/gaf installed? If so, uninstall or
hide it.
Yes, I have an older one installed. I am not too sure how I'd go about
hiding it. I don't want to delete it, since I don't plan on recompiling it
as well.
Did you set the necessary environment variables when
This is the first time I've ever compiled from CVS, so I actually checked
out the entire set into a totally empty directory. That implies that I have
the new libgeda. I'm wondering if there's an old header or file that is a
residual on most people's drives, but not checked into the latest
I just tried to install the latest CVS version of gschem to get these new
great features. I use Suse 10.1 and got the following errors after make.
Any hints on what I might be doing wrong? I did a full ./configure, make,
make install on libgeda (which worked) before attempting doing the
For the grid size, can you put the units in there as well (eg., mils, mm)?
Kurt
--
Message: 12
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 16:58:11 + (UTC)
From: Kai-Martin Knaak [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: gEDA-user: Re: Wishes, bugs and misunderstandings
To: geda-user@seul.org
I don't know if anyone mentioned this as a gschem bug, but when creating a
symbol the following occurs:
After translation to 0 at the end of symbol creation, if you had any hidden
attributes below the symbol, those hidden attributes take a negative offset
and can no longer be displayed when
91 matches
Mail list logo
