Christian Grobmeier wrote on Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 05:47:56 +0100:
On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 5:44 AM, Joe Schaefer joe_schae...@yahoo.com wrote:
That's just RBD's signature boilerplate for a document he likely started.
Feel free to remove it if you think it detracts from the document.
I
A recent vote thread on the private list led Christian Grobmeier to
wonder why a podling was simultaneously proposing someone for PPMC and
committer status.
A few bits of background:
1. TLP's vary in their behavior in this regard. Some maintain a
committer!=PMC distinction, and some do not.
2.
On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 1:43 PM, Benson Margulies bimargul...@gmail.com wrote:
...2. Historically, podlings have *not* maintained this distinction, but
have waited for graduation to sort out the initial PMC members
FWIW, Flex recently started electing people as committers only as a
first
On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 1:43 PM, Benson Margulies bimargul...@gmail.com wrote:
A recent vote thread on the private list led Christian Grobmeier to
wonder why a podling was simultaneously proposing someone for PPMC and
committer status.
A few bits of background:
1. TLP's vary in their
On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 4:43 AM, Benson Margulies bimargul...@gmail.com wrote:
1. TLP's vary in their behavior in this regard. Some maintain a
committer!=PMC distinction, and some do not.
With all respect, I don't see the OO podling as typical. It's sheer
size put it in a different category,
On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 2:02 PM, Christian Grobmeier
grobme...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 1:43 PM, Benson Margulies bimargul...@gmail.com
wrote:
...
2. Historically, podlings have *not* maintained this distinction, but
have waited for graduation to sort out the initial PMC
On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 2:45 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz
bdelacre...@apache.org wrote:
...Not all TLDs do the same...
s/TLD/TLP/ (inheriting Christian's typos ;-)
-Bertrand
-
To unsubscribe, e-mail:
On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 2:46 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz
bdelacre...@apache.org wrote:
On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 2:45 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz
bdelacre...@apache.org wrote:
...Not all TLDs do the same...
s/TLD/TLP/ (inheriting Christian's typos ;-)
Guess what I did the whole day - domain name
Benson Margulies wrote on Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 07:43:19 -0500:
3. Legally/organizationally, since PPMC members don't have binding
votes, there's not much practical effect of making a distinction. At
the end of the day, only Incubator PMC members have binding votes.
The practical differences
I have always recommended PPMC==C on all of my podlings, and was taught
about that flat organizational structure when I started to see the light
at Apache.
2 Tweets that I truly believe in:
https://twitter.com/flamefew/statuses/36352411593351168
On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 8:35 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J)
chris.a.mattm...@jpl.nasa.gov wrote:
I have always recommended PPMC==C on all of my podlings, and was taught
about that flat organizational structure when I started to see the light
at Apache.
Argh, do we really have to have this
I was that other mentor...*smile*
But the awesome part is that I respect Marvin's opinion, as well as the
opinion of others that believe (P)PMC != C.
Just not on the projects I will work on :)
Cheers,
Chris
On 12/19/12 5:33 AM, Marvin Humphrey mar...@rectangular.com wrote:
On Wed, Dec 19,
On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 5:35 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J)
chris.a.mattm...@jpl.nasa.gov wrote:
...Making someone a C without PPMC gives them the power to evolve the code,
but not to help make decisions about how can maintain it, or when to
release it. Something about that, I just don't find
On 12/19/12 11:40 , Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 5:35 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J)
chris.a.mattm...@jpl.nasa.gov wrote:
...Making someone a C without PPMC gives them the power to evolve the code,
but not to help make decisions about how can maintain it, or when to
release
On 12/19/12 8:40 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz bdelacre...@apache.org wrote:
On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 5:35 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J)
chris.a.mattm...@jpl.nasa.gov wrote:
...Making someone a C without PPMC gives them the power to evolve the
code,
but not to help make decisions about how can maintain
Well, different policies make sense at different phases of growth. A new
project is in growth mode and a major goal is to bind people into the
project. C == PMC helps do that. If you have nothing to lose and
everything to gain, then this is a pretty reasonable idea.
A more mature project has
Is it a fight to state an opinion, when one has already been stated,
Marvin? C'mon now.
Fair's fair, you already got yours out so I have every right to get mine
out.
To your point of we shouldn't legislate this across all podlings/projects,
+1 to that.
To your point of ending this useless
The thing to avoid is to wind up with a significant number of active
contributors on a project who are not on the pmc. Separating committers from
pmc members can be a symptom but it's manageable under the right conditions.
Note committers aren't the only class of contributors that projects
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 19, 2012, at 11:50 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J)
chris.a.mattm...@jpl.nasa.gov wrote:
Is it a fight to state an opinion, when one has already been stated,
Marvin? C'mon now.
Fair's fair, you already got yours out so I have every right to get mine
out.
To your
Marvin didn't even make his full point about Lucy- the fact is that all Apache
committers have commit to Lucy. Putting them all on the pmc would be nuts in
an entirely different way!
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 19, 2012, at 11:50 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J)
chris.a.mattm...@jpl.nasa.gov
I'm sorry to generate the latest incarnation of this perpetual
annoyance. I don't think that there's an argument to win here; as
always there is a spectrum of opinion and experience. I started this
thread because I thought that a vote thread was not the best place to
open the conversation with a
It certainly should be discu
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 19, 2012, at 12:40 PM, Benson Margulies bimargul...@gmail.com wrote:
I'm sorry to generate the latest incarnation of this perpetual
annoyance. I don't think that there's an argument to win here; as
always there is a spectrum of opinion
Probably better to discuss on the project's lists than here
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 19, 2012, at 12:40 PM, Benson Margulies bimargul...@gmail.com wrote:
I'm sorry to generate the latest incarnation of this perpetual
annoyance. I don't think that there's an argument to win here; as
always
On 19 December 2012 13:33, Marvin Humphrey mar...@rectangular.com wrote:
The status quo seems to be that podlings tend to inherit their Mentors'
beliefs. That may please no one, but I cringe at the thought of trying to
resolve this one way or another. Consensus would mean one side losing
Similarly, I would not hold AOO as a typical podling - both the size,
complexity, and very, ahem, rich past history and personalities had a
large influence on their growth.
The real issue is: how do we clearly express these two possibilities for
podlings and potential donors/contributors to
On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 6:57 PM, Ross Gardler
rgard...@opendirective.com wrote:
On 19 December 2012 13:33, Marvin Humphrey mar...@rectangular.com wrote:
The status quo seems to be that podlings tend to inherit their Mentors'
beliefs. That may please no one, but I cringe at the thought of
On 19/12/2012 Benson Margulies wrote:
With all respect, I don't see the OO podling as typical. It's sheer
size put it in a different category
Indeed. In addition to what others already wrote, it should be noted
that some of the OpenOffice committers only help with managing and
checking in
Hi folks,
we are a bunch of people with a bunch of different opinions but at the
end of the day we have a vote - I suggest that we restart the vote along
the lines
* Glen Mazza as new JSPWiki committer
* Glean Mazza as new PPMC member
Cheers,
Siegfried Goeschl
On 19.12.12 20:06, Andrea
I disagree. It should be up to the podling, not general@, to decide if
they have C=PPMC. If Christian wants to hold such a vote at the
podling, he should do so.
As of this moment, C=PPMC on that podling, and this person is up for a
vote. And you just exposed a vote onto general that should have
On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 9:44 PM, Benson Margulies bimargul...@gmail.com wrote:
I disagree. It should be up to the podling, not general@, to decide if
they have C=PPMC. If Christian wants to hold such a vote at the
podling, he should do so.
Christian does not want to do anything like this. He
Mattmann, Chris A (388J) wrote on Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 16:35:51 +:
Making someone a C without PPMC gives them the power to evolve the code,
but not to help make decisions about how can maintain it, or when to
release it. Something about that, I just don't find right.
You _don't need to
Christian, you can review any podling I'm a mentor on, including AOO, to
see discussion of both models. I'm sure many other projects have discussed
this too.
The page you refer to is correct, there are two separate roles as
recognised by the foundation.
You do have a point that things can be
Ross Gardler wrote on Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 22:13:17 +:
Christian, you can review any podling I'm a mentor on, including AOO, to
see discussion of both models. I'm sure many other projects have discussed
this too.
The page you refer to is correct, there are two separate roles as
On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 11:43 PM, Daniel Shahaf d...@daniel.shahaf.name wrote:
Ross Gardler wrote on Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 22:13:17 +:
Christian, you can review any podling I'm a mentor on, including AOO, to
see discussion of both models. I'm sure many other projects have discussed
this
That's just RBD's signature boilerplate for a document he likely started. Feel
free to remove it if you think it detracts from the document.
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 19, 2012, at 11:40 PM, Christian Grobmeier grobme...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 11:43 PM, Daniel Shahaf
On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 5:44 AM, Joe Schaefer joe_schae...@yahoo.com wrote:
That's just RBD's signature boilerplate for a document he likely started.
Feel free to remove it if you think it detracts from the document.
I leave the labeling of a document to the people who worked on it
Sent
Shane actually wrote that page but I still hate the exclusionary draft label he
picked up from rbd.
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 19, 2012, at 11:52 PM, Joe Schaefer joe_schae...@yahoo.com wrote:
That's the whole problem with Robert's labels, they scare people away from
working on the document
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