[geo] Re: Stoat strongly criticises AMEG

2012-03-20 Thread Nathan Currier
Hi, Josh - Well, I appreciate your comments, to which there are two distinct parts. First, in terms of the Shakhova quote, I know it very well and knew exactly where it came from, as I had already used some it myself in a Huffington Post piece. Maybe I expressed myself poorly, though: of course, s

Re: [geo] Re: Stoat strongly criticises AMEG

2012-03-20 Thread Joshua Horton
Nathan, Leaving aside the issue of my psychology, I think you misinterpret the Shakhova/Semiletov statement. I've reprinted their full comment below (taken from Andy Revkin's Dot Earth Blog), so group members can judge for themselves what was intended. What I take from it is a warning not to jum

[geo] Re: Stoat strongly criticises AMEG

2012-03-20 Thread Nathan Currier
Hi, Josh – I hope the irony is not entirely lost on you, in your quote from Shakhova, that the people she hopes will keep their minds "open to the idea that new observations may significantly change what we understand about our world," are hardly the folks at AMEG - but rather those like yourself,

Re: [geo] Re: Stoat strongly criticises AMEG

2012-03-19 Thread Mike MacCracken
True, but with Arctic warming and general reduction in sea ice and so in cold air generated in Arctic, it is all related, so just projecting ahead past levels and characteristics of variability is unlikely, in my view, to be valid. Also, thermodynamically, it is quite hard to maintain a colder Arct

[geo] Re: Stoat strongly criticises AMEG

2012-03-19 Thread Josh Horton
I agree with Nathan that we shouldn't lose sight of the methane issue, which is the motive force behind AMEG's assertions and activities. In this regard, here is a short excerpt from something I posted in December: * * *While declaring a methane emergency and calling for immediate action is roo

Re: [geo] Re: Stoat strongly criticises AMEG

2012-03-19 Thread Andrew Lockley
There was a good study at WCRP which showed that much of the inter annual variability is wind related, as ice is moved towards the Atlantic in certain years. I don't know if It's in print yet. Veli has made this point before, and the modelling seems to support his view. This is worrying, as It's

[geo] Re: Stoat strongly criticises AMEG

2012-03-18 Thread Nathan Currier
May I make the reminder that their group is not called the Arctic "Sea Ice" Emergency Group, but the Arctic Methane Emergency Group? The primary issue in all this is: what is happening with arctic methane emissions right now. That's what matters here. Criticizing PIOMAS or whatever is what Al Gore

Re: [geo] Re: Stoat strongly criticises AMEG

2012-03-18 Thread Mike MacCracken
Just to note, however, that we really do not have a good sense of how big or small variability can be at this melting trend continues‹variability is very unlikely, in my view to be much of a saving influence on the decadal scale unless some strong cooling influence results‹whether from a major volc

[geo] Re: Stoat strongly criticises AMEG

2012-03-18 Thread Andrew Revkin
I'm with Stoat, Ken Caldeira, David Keith, Alan Robock and others who see this "emergency" effort to rush cloud intervention in the Arctic on behalf of sea ice (and indirectly seabed methane) as undermining the case for a serious push on geo-engineering options, impacts and policy issues. You're