This is increasingly less relevant to Haskell, except
of course to demonstrate what a nice language Haskell is.
On 20 Jun 2008, at 11:34 pm, Jules Bean wrote:
I think where I differ on you is how to map the semantics of a C-
like language to explicit references.
I would argue that the glyph "c"
Derek Elkins wrote:
Lambda abstractions should close over bindings. Full stop.
Interesting. I agree with your analysis. I don't think I agree with your
conclusion.
The first "surprising" behaviour is the correct one. The latter would
be broken.
In my opinion, the reason this behaviour i
CC to Christian Seiler
http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2008-June/044379.html
http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2008-June/thread.html
On Wednesday 18 June 2008, Luke Palmer wrote:
> * A closure must be able to call itself recursively (via a
> higher-order function typicall
On Wednesday 18 June 2008, Luke Palmer wrote:
> I don't know that much PHP, but I find the "lexical" keyword to be a
> nuisance. What are the semantics if the lexical keyword is omitted?
In PHP Variables are local by default, the keyword global defines them as
references to the global namespace
On Thu, 2008-06-19 at 07:25 +0100, Jules Bean wrote:
> Richard A. O'Keefe wrote:
> > The mutablity of r here really isn't a problem. Nor is the mutability
> > of variables _as such_ really the problem in the PHP proposal.
> > The problem is that it's the *same* variable every time. If PHP
> > loo
Richard A. O'Keefe wrote:
The mutablity of r here really isn't a problem. Nor is the mutability
of variables _as such_ really the problem in the PHP proposal.
The problem is that it's the *same* variable every time. If PHP
loops introduced new bindings on every iteration, this particular
proble
On 19 Jun 2008, at 5:53 pm, Jules Bean wrote:
Richard A. O'Keefe wrote:
- what you get is a reference to a variable (as you do in Scheme)
but loop variables really are variables, not names for values,
so lambdas created in different iterations of the same loop point
so the same loop variab
Richard A. O'Keefe wrote:
- what you get is a reference to a variable (as you do in Scheme)
but loop variables really are variables, not names for values,
so lambdas created in different iterations of the same loop point
so the same loop variable, and do not remember the value it had
whe
On 18 Jun 2008, at 4:36 pm, Karoly Negyesi wrote:
(a) I would *never* want to use an implementation of closures like
that.
Could you elaborate on a) ?
It wasn't me who wrote it, but consider
- non-local variables are *not* captured unless you explicitly
hoist them into the lambda expressio
Hallo,
PR Stanley wrote:
Now, if you, Jules, Alex or some other wannabe Hitler have a problem
with my freedom of expression then your best solution is to saddle up
and get the hell out yourselves. This is the wrong place for setting up
your tinpot dictatorship, Doctor!
I am grateful for the h
At 18:17 18/06/2008, you wrote:
PR Stanley wrote:
>
>
>>PR Stanley wrote:
>> >
>> > [...]
>> >
>> > Paul: I rest my case! :-)
>> > you cowardly hypocrit!
>
> Paul: Why did you remove Jonathan Cast's message? Afraid somebody
> might understand why I responded the way I did?
>
>> >
>>Plea
PR Stanley wrote:
>
>
>>PR Stanley wrote:
>> >
>> > [...]
>> >
>> > Paul: I rest my case! :-)
>> > you cowardly hypocrit!
>
> Paul: Why did you remove Jonathan Cast's message? Afraid somebody
> might understand why I responded the way I did?
>
>> >
>>Please take your own advice now, and rest
> PR Stanley wrote:
> > With respect, do you not think it'd be wiser for the community
>
> [snip]
>
> *disgusted*
>
> This is exactly the sort of message that haskell-cafe does not normally
> contain. Let's not start now.
>
> This is a civilized mailing list. Either comment on the nice gentlemen
PR Stanley wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> Paul: I rest my case! :-)
> you cowardly hypocrit!
Paul: Why did you remove Jonathan Cast's message? Afraid somebody
might understand why I responded the way I did?
>
Please take your own advice now, and rest your case. Like it or not (I think
most people do
On Wed, 2008-06-18 at 09:46 +0100, Jules Bean wrote:
> PR Stanley wrote:
> > With respect, do you not think it'd be wiser for the community
>
> [snip]
>
> *disgusted*
>
> This is exactly the sort of message that haskell-cafe does not normally
> contain. Let's not start now.
>
> This is a civ
PR Stanley wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> Paul: I rest my case! :-)
> you cowardly hypocrit!
>
Please take your own advice now, and rest your case. Like it or not (I think
most people do like it), haskell-cafe has norms of behaviour that make it
different to many pl mailing lists. Your sarky comments w
> * A closure must only keep alive the varables it references, not the
> whole pad on which they are allocated (Python messed up here)
Getting off subject, but I didn't know this about python. I'm not
saying you're incorrect, but my experimentation shows:
% cat t.py
class A(object):
def __in
On 18 Jun 2008, at 9:46 am, Jules Bean wrote:
This is exactly the sort of message that haskell-cafe does not
normally contain. Let's not start now.
Reactions/arguments like the ones on this thread are perfect for
Haskell - recursive and exponential.
:)
Could we have closure too? :-) So
> >>It seems to me that if a PHP developer sees the Haskell community as
> >>a resource for advice on programming language implementation, we
> >>should take this as a compliment to the Haskell community. Repaying
> >>that compliment with "your language sucks rocks" strikes me as unwise.
> >
>
On Wed, 2008-06-18 at 16:00 +0100, PR Stanley wrote:
> >>It seems to me that if a PHP developer sees the Haskell community as
> >>a resource for advice on programming language implementation, we
> >>should take this as a compliment to the Haskell community. Repaying
> >>that compliment with "your
It seems to me that if a PHP developer sees the Haskell community as
a resource for advice on programming language implementation, we
should take this as a compliment to the Haskell community. Repaying
that compliment with "your language sucks rocks" strikes me as unwise.
Not necessarily. It
On 18 Jun 2008, at 18:19, Seth Gordon wrote:
It seems to me that if a PHP developer sees the Haskell community as
a resource for advice on programming language implementation, we
should take this as a compliment to the Haskell community. Repaying
that compliment with "your language sucks
On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 4:45 PM, Karoly Negyesi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> The PHP community is discussing the adding of closures and lambdas to
> the language, see the proposal at http://wiki.php.net/rfc/closures
>
> If someone with knowledge of both languages could take a quick look it
It seems to me that if a PHP developer sees the Haskell community as
a resource for advice on programming language implementation, we
should take this as a compliment to the Haskell community. Repaying
that compliment with "your language sucks rocks"
strikes me as unwise.
I'm familiar w
PR Stanley wrote:
Blimey! Talk about rearranging the deckchairs :-)
Today's xkcd seems apropos: http://xkcd.com/438/
It seems to me that if a PHP developer sees the Haskell community as a
resource for advice on programming language implementation, we should
take this as a compliment to the H
> Now, if you, Jules, Alex or some other wannabe Hitler have a problem with
> my freedom of expression then your best solution is to saddle up
and get the
> hell out yourselves. This is the wrong place for setting up your tinpot
> dictatorship, Doctor!
Just more evidence...
http://en.wikipe
On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 1:42 PM, PR Stanley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Now, if you, Jules, Alex or some other wannabe Hitler have a problem with
> my freedom of expression then your best solution is to saddle up and get the
> hell out yourselves. This is the wrong place for setting up your tinpo
With respect, I will not engage in further communication on that level.
PR Stanley wrote:
PR Stanley wrote:
With respect, do you not think it'd be wiser for the community
[snip]
*disgusted*
This is exactly the sort of message that haskell-cafe does not normally
contain. Let's not start now
PR Stanley wrote:
With respect, do you not think it'd be wiser for the community
[snip]
*disgusted*
This is exactly the sort of message that haskell-cafe does not
normally contain. Let's not start now.
This is a civilized mailing list. Either comment on the nice
gentlemen's PHP closure pr
Hallo,
Jules Bean wrote:
PR Stanley wrote:
With respect, do you not think it'd be wiser for the community
[snip]
*disgusted*
This is exactly the sort of message that haskell-cafe does not normally
contain. Let's not start now.
This is a civilized mailing list. Either comment on the nice
PR Stanley wrote:
With respect, do you not think it'd be wiser for the community
[snip]
*disgusted*
This is exactly the sort of message that haskell-cafe does not
normally contain. Let's not start now.
This is a civilized mailing list. Either comment on the nice
gentlemen's PHP closure
With respect, do you not think it'd be wiser for the community
[snip]
*disgusted*
This is exactly the sort of message that haskell-cafe does not
normally contain. Let's not start now.
This is a civilized mailing list. Either comment on the nice
gentlemen's PHP closure proposal from a lan
PR Stanley wrote:
With respect, do you not think it'd be wiser for the community
[snip]
*disgusted*
This is exactly the sort of message that haskell-cafe does not normally
contain. Let's not start now.
This is a civilized mailing list. Either comment on the nice gentlemen's
PHP closure pr
> Not to criticize, mind you --- the proposal looks excellent for what it
> does. But I like what Haskell does worlds better.
Obviously you like Haskell better given this mailing list :) I am not
here to compare PHP and Haskell, I was just asking advice from people
who know closures and lambdas
On Wed, 2008-06-18 at 06:36 +0200, Karoly Negyesi wrote:
> > (a) I would *never* want to use an implementation of closures like that.
> > (b) Closures as proposed are *far* better than not having closures.
>
> Could you elaborate on a) ?
I dislike the habit of implicit declaration --- strongly
I believe C# already has lambdas, and Java is supposed to be getting
them. PHP is playing catchup, is all. (Oh, and Eiffel has 'agents',
and I think I saw something about C++ Next Degeneration, and ...)
Heck, the idea has only been around in computing since the 1950s...
___
> (a) I would *never* want to use an implementation of closures like that.
> (b) Closures as proposed are *far* better than not having closures.
Could you elaborate on a) ?
___
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org
http://www.haskell.org/m
On Tue, 2008-06-17 at 18:45 +0200, Karoly Negyesi wrote:
> Hi,
>
> The PHP community is discussing the adding of closures and lambdas to
> the language, see the proposal at http://wiki.php.net/rfc/closures
>
> If someone with knowledge of both languages could take a quick look it
> would be great
But all the cool kids have em!
Seriously though computer languages are about getting things done.
If this gets more things done for the PHP community in ways
easier/simpler/faster than before then it's a win.
nerve gas would sort out the problem with mice in our
building too, easier
But all the cool kids have em!
Seriously though computer languages are about getting things done.
If this gets more things done for the PHP community in ways
easier/simpler/faster than before then it's a win.
They are after all /their/ deckchairs to play with.
-ljr
PR Stanley wrote:
> Blimey!
Calm down, PR, that's not so bad, all we're going to see is an example
of closures done wrong, nothing more.
On 17 Jun 2008, at 21:46, PR Stanley wrote:
Blimey! Talk about rearranging the deckchairs :-)
With respect, do you not think it'd be wiser for the community to
deal with a total lack
Blimey! Talk about rearranging the deckchairs :-)
With respect, do you not think it'd be wiser for the community to
deal with a total lack of proper type checking, the lack of any
notion of the general concept of a function, or a whole range of
other fundamental issues in PHP first before worry
Hi,
The PHP community is discussing the adding of closures and lambdas to
the language, see the proposal at http://wiki.php.net/rfc/closures
If someone with knowledge of both languages could take a quick look it
would be great.
Thanks a lot
Karoly Negyesi
Ps. I am not a member of the PHP inter
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