RE: Breaking Changes and Long Term Support Haskell

2015-10-22 Thread Simon Peyton Jones
| > Are these three technical capabilities *all* that we would need? | > Perhaps | > we also need a way to tie the current language (-XHaskell98, | > -XHaskell2010) to a particular implementation of the Prelude. | > | > | > I don't have a concrete plan here. I'm not even sure one ca

Re: Breaking Changes and Long Term Support Haskell

2015-10-22 Thread Geoffrey Mainland
On 10/22/2015 02:25 PM, Edward Kmett wrote: > > On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 1:41 PM, Geoffrey Mainland > mailto:mainl...@apeiron.net>> wrote: > > On 10/22/2015 01:29 PM, Edward Kmett wrote: > > On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 12:59 PM, Geoffrey Mainland > > mailto:mainl...@apeiron.net> >

Re: Breaking Changes and Long Term Support Haskell

2015-10-22 Thread Edward Kmett
On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 1:37 PM, Gregory Collins wrote: > > On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 11:40 PM, Edward Kmett wrote: > >> All I'm saying is that if we want to appeal to or cater to working >>> software engineers, we have to be a lot less cavalier about causing more >>> work for them, and we need to

Re: Breaking Changes and Long Term Support Haskell

2015-10-22 Thread Edward Kmett
On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 1:41 PM, Geoffrey Mainland wrote: > On 10/22/2015 01:29 PM, Edward Kmett wrote: > > On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 12:59 PM, Geoffrey Mainland > > mailto:mainl...@apeiron.net>> wrote: > > > > > > I am not against changing the Prelude! But it sure would be nice if > > -XHa

Re: Breaking Changes and Long Term Support Haskell

2015-10-22 Thread Bardur Arantsson
On 10/22/2015 07:41 PM, Geoffrey Mainland wrote: > On 10/22/2015 01:29 PM, Edward Kmett wrote: >> On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 12:59 PM, Geoffrey Mainland >> mailto:mainl...@apeiron.net>> wrote: >> >> >> I am not against changing the Prelude! But it sure would be nice if >> -XHaskell98 gave me

Re: Breaking Changes and Long Term Support Haskell

2015-10-22 Thread Geoffrey Mainland
On 10/22/2015 01:29 PM, Edward Kmett wrote: > On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 12:59 PM, Geoffrey Mainland > mailto:mainl...@apeiron.net>> wrote: > > > I am not against changing the Prelude! But it sure would be nice if > -XHaskell98 gave me a Haskell 98 Prelude and -XHaskell2010 gave me a > H

Re: Breaking Changes and Long Term Support Haskell

2015-10-22 Thread Edward Kmett
On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 12:59 PM, Geoffrey Mainland wrote: > > > I outlined one possible path to avoid this kind of issue: spend more > > time thinking about ways to maintain compatibility. We had > > proposals for > > doing this with AMP. > > > > > > And on the other hand we also

Re: Breaking Changes and Long Term Support Haskell

2015-10-22 Thread Geoffrey Mainland
> I outlined one possible path to avoid this kind of issue: spend more > time thinking about ways to maintain compatibility. We had > proposals for > doing this with AMP. > > > And on the other hand we also had a concrete proposal that didn't > require language changes that was rid

Re: Breaking Changes and Long Term Support Haskell

2015-10-22 Thread Edward Kmett
On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 12:20 PM, Mario Blažević wrote: > On 15-10-22 09:29 AM, Geoffrey Mainland wrote: > >> ... >> >> 1) What is the master plan, and where is it documented, even if this >> document is not up to the standard of a proposal? What is the final >> target, and when might we expect i

Re: Breaking Changes and Long Term Support Haskell

2015-10-22 Thread Edward Kmett
On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 11:36 AM, Geoffrey Mainland wrote: > On 10/22/2015 11:02 AM, Matthias Hörmann wrote: > > I would say that the need to import Control.Applicative in virtually > > every module manually > > definitely caused some pain before AMP. > > In this particular case, there is a trade

Re: Breaking Changes and Long Term Support Haskell

2015-10-22 Thread Edward Kmett
On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 9:29 AM, Geoffrey Mainland wrote: > Thanks to you and Dan [1], I now have a greater understanding and > appreciation for where the committee has been coming from. My new > understanding is that the changes that were formalized in AMP, FTP, and > MRP were the basis for the

Re: Breaking Changes and Long Term Support Haskell

2015-10-22 Thread Mario Blažević
On 15-10-22 09:29 AM, Geoffrey Mainland wrote: ... 1) What is the master plan, and where is it documented, even if this document is not up to the standard of a proposal? What is the final target, and when might we expect it to be reached? What is in the pipeline after MRP? Relatedly, guidance o

Re: Breaking Changes and Long Term Support Haskell

2015-10-22 Thread Geoffrey Mainland
On 10/22/2015 11:02 AM, Matthias Hörmann wrote: > I would say that the need to import Control.Applicative in virtually > every module manually > definitely caused some pain before AMP. In this particular case, there is a trade off between breaking code on the one hand and having to write some impo

Re: Breaking Changes and Long Term Support Haskell

2015-10-22 Thread Geoffrey Mainland
On 10/22/2015 02:40 AM, Edward Kmett wrote: > On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 8:42 PM, Gregory Collins > mailto:g...@gregorycollins.net>> wrote: > > > On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 3:18 PM, Geoffrey Mainland > mailto:mainl...@apeiron.net>> wrote: > > My original email stated my underlying concern

Re: Breaking Changes and Long Term Support Haskell

2015-10-22 Thread Taru Karttunen
On 22.10 09:04, Herbert Valerio Riedel wrote: > Fyi, Alan is currently working on levaraging HaRe[1] in > > https://github.com/alanz/Hs2010To201x (the `parsing-only` branch) > > and it's already showing great promise. However, tools like this will > only be able to handle the no-brainer cases, a

Re: Breaking Changes and Long Term Support Haskell

2015-10-22 Thread Herbert Valerio Riedel
On 2015-10-22 at 08:04:10 +0200, Taru Karttunen wrote: [...] > B) There is an automated tool that can be used to fix most code > to compile with new versions of GHC without warnings or CPP. Fyi, Alan is currently working on levaraging HaRe[1] in https://github.com/alanz/Hs2010To201x (the `pars