Da es Tasks aber trotz dieses strikten Schutzkonzeptes möglich sein muß,
eine Wirkung nach außen auszuüben, implementiert L4
Interprozeßkommunikation (IPC).
IPC ist ein Mechanismus zum Transfer von Informationen über
Adreßraumgrenzen hinweg.
Diese findet in L4 synchron und ungepuffert statt, das
It now seems apparent to me that the backgound for Hurd/L4 is _better_
explained _and_ justified than Linux, or any other system I have tried
to look at.
Here is my latest find:
http://www.heise.de/ix/artikel/1997/01/094/
I put this up for people who may or may not come after me.
Atle
__
"Thomas Bushnell, BSG" wrote:
>
> Jan Atle Ramsli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > The problem is that someone just popped out and said "The ADT is not
> > longer relevant, it died 10 years ago".
>
> That's not what I said. Y
"Thomas Bushnell, BSG" wrote:
>
> Jan Atle Ramsli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > The problem is that someone just popped out and said "The ADT is not
> > longer relevant, it died 10 years ago".
>
> That's not what I said. Y
"Thomas Bushnell, BSG" wrote:
>
> Jan Atle Ramsli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > >>There are--horror of horrors--data type problems that abstract data
> > >>types are unable to adequately describe, and this is precisely what
> > >
"Thomas Bushnell, BSG" wrote:
> First failure mode: ADT specifications do not include information on
> time complexity or expected uses. Consider for example an X 11
> "window" as an ADT. Now, what would you say if a spreadsheet design
> started off with "ok, create 1,000,000 windows, one for e
"Thomas Bushnell, BSG" wrote:
>
> Jan Atle Ramsli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > So, I can safely assume that some word just flew a little to high for
> > me, that ADTs are as valid as when I read about them for the first time,
> > and that the
"Thomas Bushnell, BSG" wrote:
>
> Jan Atle Ramsli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> That's not what I said. You are getting really annoying; it's as if
> you *want* to misunderstand.
> Geez, an elementary programming text might help.
>
>
"Thomas Bushnell, BSG" wrote:
>
> Jan Atle Ramsli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > So, I can safely assume that some word just flew a little to high for
> > me, that ADTs are as valid as when I read about them for the first time,
> > and that the
Grant Bowman wrote:
>
> * Jan Atle Ramsli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [020422 05:00]:
> > I think some mutual assumption problems have been solved here?
>
> A good one to add might be that these assumptions apply to people on
> this mail list only.
Absolutely - people who h
"Thomas Bushnell, BSG" wrote:
>
> Jan Atle Ramsli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > 1. Hardware
> > The Hurd programmers will NOT tell you how the harware works. This is
> > YOUR respnsibility.
>
> Wrong; if we know the answer and have any pa
This one goes at the 'top' somewhere:
http://l4ka.org/documentation/files/l4-x2.pdf
It may not be necessary for 'fix' type contributions, but is an absolute
requirement for me and others who need to know what it 'looks like
inside'.
Atle
(PS: Someone may notice that I make a horrible amount
"Ryan M. Golbeck" wrote:
>
> As I said above, you misinterpreted his words (afiak) by taking them
> too far.
So, I can safely assume that some word just flew a little to high for
me, that ADTs are as valid as when I read about them for the first time,
and that they are valid under the same rules
Jeroen Dekkers wrote:
>
> This is just my hobby. I learned everything with some information from
> the internet and reading a lot of code. I don't think you need to know
> everything for 100%, you just need to know that much to get the job
> done in a right way.
You are pointing out something imp
s incorrect, speak up and be clear what
> part you object to, what should be done different and way.
>
> To which Jan Atle Ramsli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> replied:
>
>I try to _understand_, I try to find some common ground, what are
>the guidelines, how am I to proceee
Marcus Brinkmann wrote:
>
> On Mon, Apr 22, 2002 at 12:16:19PM +0200, Jan Atle Ramsli wrote:
> > Marcus Brinkmann wrote:
> > >
> > > On Sun, Apr 21, 2002 at 04:31:15PM +0200, Jan Atle Ramsli wrote:
> > > > I do not want to hijack the Hurd for my own dark
Jan Atle Ramsli wrote:
>
> Please see it from my perspective: If a 2-year old girl got impressed by
20! not 2, not 200, 20!!
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Marcus Brinkmann wrote:
>
> Atle:
> > I have never been part of a multi-programmer-free-software project.
>
> Ah, ok, you probably could have improved the situation by letting us know
> about your background.
I think some mutual assumption problems have been solved here?
I, natually, make assu
Marcus Brinkmann wrote:
>
> On Sun, Apr 21, 2002 at 04:31:15PM +0200, Jan Atle Ramsli wrote:
> > I do not want to hijack the Hurd for my own dark purposes.
> > I am 42 years old, I am not looking impress the girls.
>
> Hey, but ... it works! :)
Please see it from my
Philip Dodd wrote:
>
> > Some more: Now we understand exchother perfectly.
> > I _do_ need to read at least two books in order to even contemplate
> > doing something useful - I can not, not under any circumstances, program
> > on something I do not 100% (not 99.99%!) understand.
> > And now I he
"Thomas Bushnell, BSG" wrote:
>
> There are--horror of horrors--data type problems that abstract data
> types are unable to adequately describe, and this is precisely what
> led to their demise as a fundamental organizing principle about ten
> years ago.
I absolutely did not know this!
Could you
"Thomas Bushnell, BSG" wrote:
>
> There are--horror of horrors--data type problems that abstract data
> types are unable to adequately describe, and this is precisely what
> led to their demise as a fundamental organizing principle about ten
> years ago.
Some more: Now we understand exchother p
Farid Hajji wrote:
>
> Hi Atle,
Hi, yourself :-)
> The purpose of the Hurd/L4 port is not primarily speed, but to get
> a better design of the Hurd.
.. and a stone fell from my, eh, Hard ..?
> The Hurd/L4 port forces us to rethink many design decisions that
> were valid at the time when Mach was
Marcus Brinkmann wrote:
>
> On Sun, Apr 21, 2002 at 04:31:15PM +0200, Jan Atle Ramsli wrote:
> > I do not want to hijack the Hurd for my own dark purposes.
> > I am 42 years old, I am not looking impress the girls.
>
> Hey, but ... it works! :)
>
> > I try to f
Marcus Brinkmann wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> most things have ben said in this thread, just a couple of remarks that I
> feel are missing.
Could I just be allowed to make one remark, and then
I'll crawl back into my hole :-)
I think Marcus din't find something wrong with my 'tone' or that I have
been
Marcus Brinkmann wrote:
>
> Frankly, I think you couldn't be more wrong. You seem to assume that there
> are some hidden resources which can't get to work because some property of
> the Hurd (age? lack of interfaces?) stops them.
You took me seriously, and I thank you for that.
You also gave t
"Ryan M. Golbeck" wrote:
>
> Jan Atle Ramsli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > .. with the purpose of _?
>
> How could we know? You are the one doing it. I learned all those
> theoretical buzz words in first year of Unversity too. Maybe you
> sh
Jeff Bailey wrote:
>
> It's amazing that with such a patronizing tone that you would expect a
> positive response.
>
This looks like the response I got the last time.
I am not the 'patron' here, _you_ are!
I try to _understand_, I try to find some common ground, what are the
guidelines, how am
Jeroen Dekkers wrote:
>
>
> > What I wanted to do, was remove this 1Gb limit, that would be a simple
> > thing to do if I would know which tools were available to me, what I
> > could do in the strategy section, and what I could no in the interrupt
> > section.
>
> The tools available to you? Th
"Alfred M. Szmidt" wrote:
>
> * Jan Atle Ramsli writes:
>
> > I think you may find that this will improve with the change from
> > Mach to L4. But imagine if the first year had been used to analyze
> > and specify it.
>
> Why? The Hurd is not Mach, o
Jeff Bailey wrote:
> Perhaps you've noticed that there have been a fair number of new
> conributors.
I have noticed a significant improvement, and it may just have coincided
with the change to L4, but I don't think it's coincidence.
The idea of having an API where yo can mentally picture your mes
Ognyan Kulev wrote:
>
> Marcin Wyszomierski wrote:
> > On Sat, Apr 20, 2002 at 01:48:10PM +0200, Jan Atle Ramsli wrote:
> >> The Hurd v1.0 BETA (C) 1989-2009
> >The Hurd v1.0 unstable (C) 1989-2005
> >The Hurd v1.9 testing (C) 1989-2021
> >The
The Hurd v1.0 BETA (C) 1989-2009
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Christian Mertes wrote:
>
> Kalyan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > How about "Have you Hurd of it?"
I Hurd DWORD
about The Hird ...
DOS IT Hurd, Mach?
Don't worry, you'lL4 get IT in a while()...
Have you Hurd IT?
(Or some other kind of Inormation Technology?)
German Hurd: "Laugh, Hurd's"
Kalyan wrote:
>
>
> How about "Have you Hurd of it?"
I had to add a German poem, too:
Mei nehm is Becker,
Ei emm eh Hecker,
Ei taunt hag B\"ords
Patt ei tuh bug_hurd!
It has the nice property that it can only be read by Germans,
and when read, it can only be understood by people who speak En
Oystein Viggen wrote:
>
> * [Jan Atle Ramsli]
>
> > Jan Atle Ramsli wrote:
> >>
> >> I wonder if anyone knows why B1FF ALWAYS WROTE IN CAPATUL LETTER WITH
> >> MISTAKES INEM?
>
> If you know this to be true, you might want to contact
> [EMAI
Jan Atle Ramsli wrote:
>
> Jeff Bailey wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 16, 2002 at 06:07:56PM +0200, Jan Atle Ramsli wrote:
>
> I wonder if anyone knows why B1FF ALWAYS WROTE IN CAPATUL LETTER WITH
> MISTAKES INEM?
.. and he knew he had made mistakes in the spellings, bu
Jeff Bailey wrote:
>
> On Tue, Apr 16, 2002 at 06:07:56PM +0200, Jan Atle Ramsli wrote:
>
> > > > AOL!
>
> > > AOL!
>
> > > AOL!
>
> > Eh, what does AOL mean? ...
> It's a tradition, ...
I love these stories, and I love to know
Jeroen Dekkers wrote:
>
> > AOL!
>
> AOL!
>
>
> AOL!
Eh, what does AOL mean?
I see it on some Windows desktops, too, I took it to mean 'Always
Off-Line' for people who were not
interested in Internet, but seriously..?
Atle
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I have to ask: Does anyone know the whereabouts of Neil Whalfield?
The reason I ask is that he went to Europe, and was supposed to come by
here.
I assumed he didn't have the time, and went back home, and since then I
have waited for him to start posting on this list again.
I lost his and all other
Kalle Olavi Niemitalo wrote:
>
> I don't know GNUmach very well, but here's what I found by
> peeking around with id-utils. If I got things right, the code
> path from a timer interrupt to a task switch goes like this:
Thanks ...
The function ipc_bootstrap() actually has a comment stating it purpose... this is the
only function I have understood something
about so far ... I actually know tha this function is required by something called the
'kernel task'. Better than nothing!
It would be a great help if someone could exp
All functions in the ipc directory contain a statement of their purpose.
That gets me hoping that I will at least figure out the ipc part of it.
But is the ipcxxx layer underneath the portxx layer, or is it a different interface,
in that case, why?
Atle
Hello again, Hurders!
Short question this time: What does 'Norma' in NORMA_IPC refer to?
Atle
Eh ... where is main.c ?
Atle
New Greetings, excellent Knights of the Microkernel!
I have now read on, and I thought you might be pleased to know that I am very happy
with what is written so far.
Really encouraging, I shall be looking forward to this.
My questions are simply:
a) Is there work going on right now on the Man
Greetings, Hurders of the GNUMach!
Today, my Hurd package came in the mail!
A great thanks to Neal for that! You saved me a fortune that would otherwise have gone
to greedy, dishonest monopoly-abusers called
Belgacom ... they still own the phone-lines ... but the day will come ... we will
ove
Kalle Olavi Niemitalo wrote:
>
(...Very useful thing about the HW clock, maybe problem=fixed ...)
However, Atle is konfused. No wonder, I haven't even installed the Hurd yet, how can I
hope to be of use before I at least get the
system running?
Well ... I have been writing with Kalle about this
Chris Lingard wrote:
>
> Jeff Bailey wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Apr 18, 2000 at 07:15:26PM +0200, Jan Atle Ramsli wrote:
> >
> > > Jeff Bailey was mentioned - is he the 'Doc'-man?
> >
> > Not exactly. I'm trying to collect documentation to f
Who is in charge of documentation, please?
When I have the complete 'package' and start adding comments and write down things, I
need someone who can tell me:
1. If my understanding is right, and what is wrong with it.
2. If there is some existing documentation on the subject
3.
David Nowak wrote:
> .Another user reported this, but we lack a clue about what's going on.
> > The Hurd doesn't really do anything with the clock I know of.
>
> Very strange! That's terrible because I cannot find a way to make it go again at
> the proper speed.
Well, I looked through some old bo
First of all, thanks to Thomas Bushnell, BSG for taking the time to
answer my newbie questions.
> (like, say, Scheme), and you should learn to get used to it and even
> use it in your own programs! It makes things much cleaner overall.
Well, I guess even old dogs can learn new tricks, the idea of
Jim Franklin wrote:
>
> it's a funky little funktion :) Can you dig it? lol
>From Kiruna ...
>
> > - Funktion: void ports_manage_port_operations_multithread
> > (struct port_bucket *BUCKET, ports_demuxer_type DEMUXER,
I hope I don't have to look in the BIT-BUCKET to find wisdom ...
"Thomas Bushnell, BSG" wrote:
>
> sets, but all that means is that newly created threads in that task
> get assigned to that processor set by default.
Thanks for clearing up a couple of things. So this means that there is
only _one_ execution control structure.
Does the package contain an overvie
Kalle Olavi Niemitalo wrote:
>
> Jan Atle Ramsli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > That would permit 'asynchronous' reception and honoring of requests, not
> > waiting for validation, but going on immediately to the next request.
>
> Many (perha
Kalle Olavi Niemitalo wrote:
>
> Neal H Walfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > An application sends a message to a server; jump into kernel. Mr. Kernel
> > says, is this ok to do? Hmm, I need to check with Mr. Auth server, in user
> > land.
>
> Each client has a send right to a port; the
Neal H Walfield wrote:
.> > It sort of says: Microkernel: 386-assembler
> > Servers: C++
>
> I would tend to disagree. What literature have you read? Are you thinking
> along the lines of micro implies small (or size at all)? As that is simply
> not true in the common case (look
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Is gnumach/Mach 4 the microkernel Hurd will stay with, or is there an
> official direction for something different? (like OSkit-mach,
> OSkit-SomethingElse, mach 3, etc.). In other words, which microkernels
> should we be studying? Which microkernels would make hurd
>
Hello again, Hurders!
I am reading Kernel-principles by Keith Loepere, I have one little
question and one big.
The first one is about 'sunchcronous/asynchronous' - I am used to
thinking about this in terms of 'call/interrupt' but there seems to be
some other meaning in the text, is this related t
Thanks to all those who pointed me in the right direction(s), I now have
some 900pg of PS files to print and read, I need a book about
post-Pentium1-processors (MMX, ++), I need to browse the source code,
maybe even run Hurd (?)
This will take me a few weeks.
By then I hope to be able to make myse
Jan Atle Ramsli wrote:
>
> The Pentium Pro has some extra instructions for multimedia support,
> couldn't this be solved by a 'multimedia-driver'?
> A general-purpose kernel, as small and higly optimized as possible, with
> tightly programmed queue functions - woul
Sorry, Gerald, this was meant for the list!
Gerald Gutierrez wrote:
> Windows is only marginally better with its DirectX and
> associated technologies.
I haven't used OpenGL, but like most of us, I have compiled and run the
demos - why is OpenGL/Mesa behind DirectX?
> and Engineered properly, wh
Hello!
I have gotten a binary Hurd and a 0.2 source tree.
But I live in a part of Belgium where Internet access is terribly
expensive, and getting the entire system would cost a fortune - there is
no alternative to Belgacom, and they have a habit of billing me both for
calls I have made, and call
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