We have a home-grown utility that reports on various system values (the
usual IPL date/time, sysres volume, software level etc.) It also reports
the IODF dataset name. It retrieves this from the IOVT which is chained
from CVTIXAVL-IOCIOVTP. The IODF dataset name used to be at offset
x'160' down
Hi to all.
Does somebody know if IDCAMS has(inside?) a kind of exit to call to have
abend after an error?
I mean: for error in a AMS command the maximum return code that we can have
is 16 but this error never satisfy the abnormal completition of jcl because
it intercept
System and User Abend
On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 15:46:40 -0500, Kittendorf, Craig
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
TSSO from FILE 404 solved my problem. We have a routine which does
OSCMD D A,REGION. Then if CMDOUT 0 it checks the last line to
see if REGION was not found. On the previously installed version, we
got CMDOUT = 3.
Macro IOCINFO
Roland
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Metcalfe
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 9:40 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Where to obtain IODF dataset name
We have a home-grown utility that reports on
Andrew,
The IOVT is not a GUPI - however - if you look at offset x'18' into the
IOVT - and follow the address - you should come to the CDA control block
and you should be able to glean the required info.
Normal caveats apply for processing control blocks like this (ie
PTFs/FMIDs can change the
Macro IOCINFO
Now Roland - where is the fun in using a supported interface :-)
Rob Scott
Rocket Software
http://www.rs.com/portfolio/mxi/
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It appears from the docs that IOCINFO returns the IODF token. The IODF
token does not have to contain the IODF dataset name.
Andrew
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Look into the source and be aware of the NOTE:
IOCAREA=iocarea
is the name (RS-type), or address in register (2)-(12), of
an optional 256 character output into which IOCINFO is to
return the I/O configuration information. This area can
The IOCAREA is not a part of the intended programming service
Enough room for fun :-))
Roland
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rob Scott
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 11:10 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Where to
The user had to pay for IMS based on the size of the processor
Yes, in the late 1980s.
Fast forward to the 2000s and there's subcapacity workload-based
licensing, for IMS and just about everything else. Now I'm not arguing
that it's the perfect answer in every situation, but it's
Stealth announcement?
I can still find no English language press coverage (there's a little piece in
Computerwoche)
and the only hits in Google are my site's index page and a short analysis I
did. Nothing
searchable from IBM.
I've put up a couple of links to the zSeries pages and the overview
Testchecking my posts, I don't see them arrive.
Kees.
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Yes, in the late 1980s.
Fast forward to the 2000s and there's subcapacity workload-based licensing,
for IMS and just
about everything else. Now I'm not arguing that it's the perfect answer in
every situation,
but it's relatively new
and much more business-friendly, IMHO.
It doesn't even
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 01/23/2006
at 09:17 AM, Charles Mills [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Isn't that what I said?
No. You said When the gurus of the sixties designed QSAM, the theory
was that after a DCB ABEND the program went away, At that time there
was no DCB ABEND, so there could not have
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 01/25/2006
at 02:11 AM, Chris Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
I appreciate this is a serious comment from you but I hope you'll
forgive a light-hearted take, at least initially.
Why? Certainly I would never crack a joke, make a pun or write a
double entendre ;-)
Cyrnfr
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 01/24/2006
at 04:59 PM, Binyamin Dissen [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Why?
If someone wants to try it at their own shop, I'm sure that it will be
educational. I'm a bit twiddler from way back, willing to get into the
trenches and change low level system behavior when there
We're trying to set up FTP processes that go both to and from Virtual Tape
and are having problems getting it to work. The client would be on AIX or
Windows and would connect to the z/OS 1.4 FTP Server to GET and PUT
traditional z/OS style tape datasets. We're entirely SMS managed and use
check to make sure you have this coded in your FTPDATA :
AUTOTAPEMOUNT TRUE; allow automatically mount tape volumes
Here is URL to the Z/os 1.4 communication server :
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/Shelves/F1A1BK33
HTH
Scott
We had to specify this option in SYSFTPD.
AUTOTAPEMount true ; non-mounted volumes mounted automatically
Regards,
John Kalinich
Computer Sciences Corp
Is anyone out there using IBM WD4Z 6.01 (websphere Developers studio). I
installed it for an AD unit but had questions about UNIX access for the
users. I am in touch with IBM but not getting very far thought id try with
a 'real life' user. If you can tell me what permission's your customers
Answer to the topic question: YES.
Answer to message body: In fact I don't understand your intention. What
do you want to get ? I believe, that IDCAMS abend is not the goal,
rather a way to achive the goal. Maybe there's another way.
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland
Marco Gianfranco Indaco
Hal Merritt wrote:
XL means 'eXtra Loot'.
'Loot' is US slang for money.
So, XL = Higher price.
I am joking, but renaming or rebranding is usually a sales/marketing
ploy. Very rarely of technical interest except as an administrative
headache.
IMHO it's headache only. What marketing
On 1/24/2006 12:48 PM, Binyamin Dissen wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 11:08:27 -0600 Craddock, Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
:There are a whole bunch of integrity issues. When you use the official
:interfaces, the OS keeps you out of the weeds. When you DIY you're on
:your own. In this particular
IDENTIFY creates a CDE.
IDENTIFY RC=4 more or less indicates that an existing minor CDE was found
that matches the input name.
IDENTIFY RC=8 indicates that an existing major CDE was found that matches
the input name
When IDENTIFY creates a CDE, the new CDE usually is a minor CDE and is
enqueued
Ron,
Some corrections about Hitachi boxes:
7700C could be expanded to 1,5TB. 5 cabinets (2L,Controller,2R). It
wasn't described in initial documentation, but Im' pretty sure it is
possible, because I used such configuration.
15 classics sounds horribly, but the same capacity can be easily
Andy White wrote:
Is anyone out there using IBM WD4Z 6.01 (websphere Developers studio). I
installed it for an AD unit but had questions about UNIX access for the
users. I am in touch with IBM but not getting very far thought id try with
a 'real life' user. If you can tell me what permission's
Ira Broussard wrote:
What it boils down to is that I just want to know why the second (and
subsequent) IDENTIFY gives a RC=4 if the loaded module previously came from STEPLIB
and a RC=8 if the loaded module previously came from the LPA. Remember that
in both scenarios, the entry point
M$ Exchange server has been known to do this. I wouldn't doubt a few other
mail server systems work the same way.
Worked(?) with our company's e-mail admin, and was never able to get them to
recognize it was a problem, let alone this anomaly did exist. Every once in
a while a message would slip
On 25 Jan 2006 16:43:34 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Frank Yaeger)
wrote:
A better option than trying to sort each tape separately is to split the
file using OUTFIL. The following control statements would accomplish this:
OPTION COPY
OUTFIL FNAMES=(TAPE1,TAPE2),SPLIT
TAPE1 and TAPE2 are the
On 19 Jan 2006 21:34:53 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bo Xie)
wrote:
As of z/OS V1R7, the z/OS C/C++ compiler has been rebranded to z/OS XL
C/C++. What does XL of XL C/C++ mean?
Well, Superbowl XL is coming up in another week. (I wonder how long
they are going to live in the Roman Empire?)
Well, Superbowl XL is coming up in another week. (I wonder how long
they are going to live in the Roman Empire?)
Until the Saints play the Lions in the Coliseum ?
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which
it is addressed and may contain CONFIDENTIAL
On Thu, 2006-01-26 at 14:23 +0100, R.S. wrote:
Answer to message body: In fact I don't understand your intention. What
do you want to get ? I believe, that IDCAMS abend is not the goal,
I seem to recall that e.g. SORT and FDR both have options to ABEND in
lieu of returning a severe RC. Marco
If I understand the question correctly - yes, and not just IDCAMS.
We're going back several decades here, but at one time quite a few programmes
(SORT was one)
used to signifiy any failure (even fatal I/O errors) with RC=16 rather than an
ABEND.
I think just about every shop either wrote or
In a message dated 1/26/2006 8:21:48 A.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Until the Saints play the Lions in the Coliseum ?
I'm so old I remember when they had a team in LA and the 49ers and Raiders
were competitive! They showed the Ice Bowl(Packers vs. Cowboys) on
On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 08:38:12 -0500 Walt Farrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
:On 1/24/2006 12:48 PM, Binyamin Dissen wrote:
: On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 11:08:27 -0600 Craddock, Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED]
: wrote:
: :There are a whole bunch of integrity issues. When you use the official
: :interfaces, the OS
It apparently is not. Our system has no defined VIO.
Greg Shirey
Ben E. Keith Company
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Francois Paré
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 9:03 AM
We are defining a new IODF and we are wondering if
Radoslaw,
Some corrections about Hitachi boxes:
7700C could be expanded to 1,5TB. 5 cabinets (2L,Controller,2R). It
wasn't described in initial documentation, but Im' pretty sure it is
possible, because I used such configuration.
That's correct using 9GB drives. The 7700s I've worked with
We are now running most all our work on z/os.e. We have a z/os LPAR in
the MAS for exceptions such as TSO. What we would like is for jobs
submitted on z/os to be executed on z/os.e unless explicitly routed.
We dislike exits. We have a grand total of two and that's two too many.
I
We are defining a new IODF and we are wondering if it is mandatory to define
VIO in the EDT (UNIT=VIO) and VIO devices?
AFAIK VIO is required only if you have JCL using UNIT=VIO (or some other
UNIT= which equates to VIO devices). At one time some IBM supplied
PROCs (compiler PROCs and such)
Thanks for your reply.
I'm not so lazy.. :-)
This is not a way to avoid cond in some steps...
I try to explain better the concept and apologize if my english is so
complicate to understand.
In Icetool, for example, we can code ABEND to terminate abnormally the
execution
of a step(using in this
Hi,
We have our z890 up and running one test LPAR. We noticed that the LPAR
numbers showing up in SMF and SHOWMVS are not the same as the MIF image
id or LPAR numbers we entered in the profiles through the HMC. Should
SMF report the MIF image id, or perhaps is this the order the profiles
were
How can I find out what PUT LVL our system is at?
Thanks,
Desi de la Garza
Systems Programmer
Bexar County Information Services
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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do a sourceid query on your global zone
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Desi de la Garza
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 10:46 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: PUT LEVEL
How can I find out what PUT LVL our system is at?
How about WLM Resources and Scheduling Environments? You could define a
default scheduling environment to all the job classes through the SDSF JC
screen. Then define a resource connected to the scheduling environment that
is on for the little MVS, and off for the big MVS. Have another
Did query on my SMPE.GLOBAL.CSI and found lots of PUT sourceid's. Do I look
at the one with the biggest #?
Thanks,
Desi de la Garza
Systems Programmer
Bexar County Information Services
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Marco Gianfranco Indaco wrote:
Thanks for your reply.
I'm not so lazy.. :-)
This is not a way to avoid cond in some steps...
I try to explain better the concept and apologize if my english is so
complicate to understand.
In Icetool, for example, we can code ABEND to terminate abnormally the
Well that depends. My answer was based on the fact that I know what
PUT/RSU's I have applied to my system. So in my case the highest number
is the one that I have applied. You could receive maintenance and not
apply it so the highest PUT/RSU might not be the one installed. Anybody
have any ideas ?
Ron and Jenny Hawkins wrote:
Yes, I chose the oldest unit that I recall you are using (I checked your
post of Jan1 last year and you did say HDS7700) to dress up the argument.
The Maintenance on 10TB of DASD more than two or three years old would still
be a damn site more expensive than 10TB
Hi Mr Lodz, you are right but it's a trick.
My question regard mainly the association of 3th dispostion and IDCAMS...
I'd like to know if it's true that is unuseful.
If we cannot use an exit is true
else is false...(so... how?)
We can write program or use IEFBR14(as you suggest) to solve this
On 1/26/2006 10:48 AM, Hal Merritt wrote:
We are now running most all our work on z/os.e. We have a z/os LPAR in
the MAS for exceptions such as TSO. What we would like is for jobs
submitted on z/os to be executed on z/os.e unless explicitly routed.
...snipped...
I feel sure this has been
On Thu, 2006-01-26 at 16:21 +0100, Marco Gianfranco Indaco wrote:
I'm not so lazy.. :-)
This is not a way to avoid cond in some steps...
Sure, but same idea. You want to avoid having to code extra JCL to test
the return code from IDCAMS, and conditionally delete your dataset.
What I'm
Many thanks Mr Andrews...
Thanks for this piece of history :-) that I didn't know...
I don't want to submit a requirement other than this
that I repeat... is useful but mainly fun because using sort
I solved this problem...
Usually for deldef or other AMS usage I use cond like the
great part of
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Phil Payne
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 8:59 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Test, pls ignore
Testchecking my posts, I don't see them arrive
Just your own? ISTR there's a subscription option that
What makes it even worse is that I jumped on the initial information and
forwarded it around, got executive interest and follow-up questions and now am
looking silly that I can not provide any additional information or appropriate
answers to their questions!
The FAQ was great, but generates
On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 09:25:55 -0600, Hal Merritt wrote:
We are now running most all our work on z/os.e. We have a z/os LPAR in
the MAS for exceptions such as TSO. What we would like is for jobs
submitted on z/os to be executed on z/os.e unless explicitly routed.
We dislike exits. We have a grand
Hi,
We have been using a VTS shared by 2 monoplexes for years with
no problems at all, but we had VOLCAT and Tape Management package
shared too.
I think that share a VTS among 2 SYSPLEXes is the same thing.
Take a look at GRS definition of VTS VOLCAT, excluding it,
define CBRUXENT to accept
Walt Farrell and I agree that this sounds like a bad idea.
There is a need, as the AX (via AXSET) is a global address space
value. There is no way (that I can find) to legally change the
AX for a single unit of work.
There is a good reason for that. The AX is irrelevant unless you are
(Posting the reply to a private note.)
First off you need to know your environment(s). If one sysres is going to
serve all systems, it has to contain *everything* that's needed *anywhere*
in the enterprise but does not need anything that's not used at all. For
example, we don't run BDT. Therefore
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Phil Payne
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 8:59 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Test, pls ignore
Testchecking my posts, I don't see them arrive
Just your own? ISTR there's a
'PUT level' has been rendered obsolete by RSU. A given PTF may take quite a
while to make the RSU list, or if it's HIPER, it will show up immediately
in the next RSU order. As others have suggested, you can scan a listing of
PTFs installed in your target zone and eyeball the latest ones, but the
On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 13:23:15 +0100, Phil Payne
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It doesn't even come close to solving the problem. In fact, after two
and a half decades of attrition, it has almost no effect at all except
partially helping to contain increases due to extra MIPS capacity with
On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 10:43:39 -0500, Kittendorf, Craig
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
We have our z890 up and running one test LPAR. We noticed that the LPAR
numbers showing up in SMF and SHOWMVS are not the same as the MIF image
id or LPAR numbers we entered in the profiles through the HMC. Should
All -
Thanks for all of the advice. Based on the responses, it would appear
that virtual volumes can be shared across SYSPLEXes. In fact, the IBM
Redbook Guide to Sharing and Partitioning IBM Tape Library Dataservers
(SG24-4409) has a reasonable discussion of the topic at hand.
Thanks again.
On Thu, 26 Jan 2006, Chase, John wrote:
REPRO (echo own posts back) | NOREPRO. I believe NOREPRO is the default for
IBM-MAIN.
REPRO is the default. Always has been.
Darren
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IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU wrote on 01/26/2006
09:47:40 AM:
: There is no way (that I can find) to legally change the AX for
a single unit
: of work.
The AX is intended by architecture to be maintained at an address
space level. The AX is maintained in the ASTE,
Being a simple minded kind of guy, I like simple solutions. The command
seems to be working exactly like we want.
Thanks to all
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom Schmidt
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 10:57 AM
To:
IMHO, we are genetically programmed to respond to anything new. In olden days,
something new could be food *for* you or something that wanted to make food
*of* you. Either way, your survival depended on quickly paying close attention.
Marketing types have known this for years. So much so
On Jan 26, 2006, at 8:18 AM, Howard Brazee wrote:
On 19 Jan 2006 21:34:53 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bo Xie)
wrote:
As of z/OS V1R7, the z/OS C/C++ compiler has been rebranded to z/
OS XL
C/C++. What does XL of XL C/C++ mean?
Well, Superbowl XL is coming up in another week. (I wonder
My question regard mainly the association of 3th dispostion and IDCAMS...
I'd like to know if it's true that is unuseful.
If we cannot use an exit is true
else is false...(so... how?)
We can write program or use IEFBR14(as you suggest) to solve this problem
but I'm interested to know if this is
On Jan 26, 2006, at 9:40 AM, Bruce Black wrote:
We are defining a new IODF and we are wondering if it is mandatory
to define VIO in the EDT (UNIT=VIO) and VIO devices?
AFAIK VIO is required only if you have JCL using UNIT=VIO (or some
other UNIT= which equates to VIO devices). At one time
Once upon a time long ago, I seem to remember a problem with one of the
old COBOL compliers where it supported only 3350(!) for its SYSUTx work
datasets. You could use different geometry, but the compiler would
occasionally fail on a bogus I/O error.
The complier was already long out of support
Could the modal commands (IF-THE-ELSE; DO-END; SET MAXCC/LASTCC; CANCEL) be
of any use? IIRC the max CC from IDCAMS is 16. Testing the RC in the JCL for
some strange value (an odd integer?) could then bypass steps of flush the JOB.
I understand that you might be interested in an IBM Mainframe Systems
Programming opportunity. I am currently looking for someone with MVS
(Os/390-z/OS) experience that would be interested in working in San Antonio,
Texas. The environment is County Government. The platform is z/800 running
What's so hard about following the rules?
CR's are not a specialty of mine.
But, I agree with the sentiment.
The rules are there for a reason (usually learned the hard way), so follow them.
Gone are the days of cowboy sysprogs.
Besides, there are still enough problems out there, so why try to
But, I still run into people that are convinced that VIO performs better
than DASD. Sigh
In a non-paging environment, it still does.
-
-teD
I’m an enthusiastic proselytiser of the universal panacea I believe in!
--
For
There is a recent change that changed the meaning of the LPAR Number in SMF
records:
APAR II13668 said that after z990s, LPARNUM (SMF70LPN) was no longer a
static identifier, but instead is now a system generated number of the
alphabetical location of the LPAR name, and the LPARNUM
IODF Dataset Name and Create Date Time stamps are in RMF 73 and RMF 74 subtype 7
records, each RMF interval, as an alternative source.
Barry
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On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 16:15:28 -0600, Barry Merrill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There is a recent change that changed the meaning of the LPAR Number in
SMF records:
APAR II13668 said that after z990s, LPARNUM (SMF70LPN) was no longer a
static identifier, but instead is now a system generated
In a recent note, Bruce Black said:
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 10:40:50 -0500
AFAIK VIO is required only if you have JCL using UNIT=VIO (or some other
UNIT= which equates to VIO devices). At one time some IBM supplied
PROCs (compiler PROCs and such) used UNIT=VIO for temp datasets so
I wonder about teD's statement that there remains a performance
edge for VIO.
There's always a caveat!
I haven't had a paging system for over 15 years.
On memory-rich systems, VIO (or any DIV solution) beats physical I/O (even to
cache).
If you're paging, VIO isn't worth it!
If you're not, go
In a recent note, Ted MacNEIL said:
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 00:00:00 GMT
I haven't had a paging system for over 15 years.
I guess I'm stuck in the Dark Ages; I'm astonished. Does that
mean you don't even bother to define page data sets. In defense
of my naivete, we run so many test
guess I'm stuck in the Dark Ages; I'm astonished. Does that
mean you don't even bother to define page data sets. In defense
of my naivete, we run so many test systems under VM that I
believe paging is commonplace.
No, you still have to define page datasets.
We just find them very inactive.
Gil,
When Expanded Storage was introduced on the 390-200 the way VIO worked was
changed. VIO was written to ES and not the page datasets, which meant that
unless you had really saturated your ES and pushed the migration age down,
VIO rarely went any where near a real disk. In a real sense it
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I wonder about teD's statement that there remains a performance
edge for VIO. I understand the paths for paging are highly
optimized. But with modern buffered and virtual DASD the
difference ought to be shrinking. And there's the offsetting
overhead of emulating
On 26 Jan 2006 05:31:08 -0800, in bit.listserv.ibm-main
(Message-ID:[EMAIL PROTECTED])
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (R.S.) wrote:
Hal Merritt wrote:
XL means 'eXtra Loot'.
'Loot' is US slang for money.
So, XL = Higher price.
I am joking, but renaming or rebranding is usually a
sales/marketing
ploy.
I am writing Assembler with the new 64-bit instructions,
and frequency use the TSO TEST command for debugging.
TEST does not recognize the new instructions for commands
such at AT +12C if the instructions is a LG.
What do assembler programmers use with the new instruction
set?
Regards
Bil
z/XDC from Cole Software is my tool of choice. I'd say that would
also be true for most of the other Assembler programmers I've worked
with over the years.
There is also the IDF that comes with the HLASM Toolkit, but the last
time I tinkered with it, I was disappointed in its lack of certain
Years ago I found directing compiler (PL/I and Assembler) work files to
VIO could reduce the elapsed time of a compilation to a fraction of what
it otherwise would be. May not be true now... or systems are so fast it
doesn't matter much anymore.
The big advantage of VIO that I still like is the
Bob Richards wrote:
The FAQ was great, but generates TONS of questions.
Feel free to post some questions. Who knows? Some of us lurkers might be
able to find out more.
- - - - -
Timothy F. Sipples
Consulting Enterprise Software Architect, z9/zSeries
IBM Japan Ltd.
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
check to make sure you have this coded in your FTPDATA :
AUTOTAPEMOUNT TRUE; allow automatically mount tape volumes
Just be a little careful about denial of service-style attacks with this.
I suppose it'd be possible to make the robot really busy with a bunch of
random FTP
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Hunkeler Peter (KRDO 4) said the following on 01/24/2006 05:11 PM:
zNUPs - zSeries No Use Processor - Its a simple one: it doesn't do
anything except from appearing on your maintenance bill
No no, you got that wrong: zNUPs are required! You need
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