On 17/03/2023 9:20 am, Jeremy Nicoll wrote:
But doesn't the vendor already have to understand whether or not
separate changes they've made to their product affect each other?
In theory yes, in practice you rely a lot on the compiler to verify
calls between modules etc. It's much easier to do i
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023, at 23:10, Andrew Rowley wrote:
> Not everyone loves chasing pre-req chains in SMP/E. Plus the
> vendor needs to track it all somehow and build those chains.
But doesn't the vendor already have to understand whether or not
separate changes they've made to their product affect
Thanks
On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 09:15:59 PM EDT, Andrew Rowley
wrote:
On 16/03/2023 12:01 pm, Warren Brown wrote:
> Andrew, I have been out for a while. Is there a replacement for SMPE ?
> Warren
There have always been ways to deliver software without using SMP/E e.g.
datasets
On 16/03/2023 12:01 pm, Warren Brown wrote:
Andrew, I have been out for a while. Is there a replacement for SMPE ?
Warren
There have always been ways to deliver software without using SMP/E e.g.
datasets dumped to tape. As people have noted, you can also deliver what
is effectively a full re
Andrew, I have been out for a while. Is there a replacement for SMPE ?
Warren
On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 06:15:29 PM EDT, Andrew Rowley
wrote:
On 15/03/2023 8:33 am, Jay Maynard wrote:
> That's because SMP/E and its power are only truly present in the z/OS and
> predecessors world
On 16/03/2023 9:33 am, Ed Jaffe wrote:
Not true. It simply means if you change the (non-fixed) interface, you
must re-issue all affected components.
OK yes... I did say that you could change the interface with
corresponding pre and co-reqs. And if you just want to change one of the
dependent
On 3/15/2023 3:15 PM, Andrew Rowley wrote:
The problem with individual fixes rather than full replacement is that
it means the interface for every individually replaceable component is
fixed.
Not true. It simply means if you change the (non-fixed) interface, you
must re-issue all affected
On 15/03/2023 8:33 am, Jay Maynard wrote:
That's because SMP/E and its power are only truly present in the z/OS and
predecessors world. Everyone else thinks of applying maintenance as a
matter of replacing the entire product, instead of individual fixes that
are automatically maintained and manag
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 09:30:33 -0700, Michael Stein wrote:
>...
>Then a SMP build process would build or rebuild the targets needing
>changes from the current configuration to the new desired configuration.
>So any PTF could be removed, at least as long as the pile of MODs still
>contained the ol
commenting on previous merged emails:
> Yes, there are indeed Linux package managers. They don't get beyond the
> "replace the entire package" level. THey have no concept of individual
> fixes and their interactions.
> Are they as powerful as SMP? No, but they fill a similar niche.
They are more
On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 20:49:24 -0500, Jay Maynard wrote:
>Yes, there are indeed Linux package managers. They don't get beyond the
>"replace the entire package" level. THey have no concept of individual
>fixes and their interactions.
>
There's a hazard. Customers come to fear possible collateral da
[jaymayn...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2023 9:49 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: not using SMPe
Yes, there are indeed Linux package managers. They don't get beyond the
"replace the entire package" level. THey have no concept of individual
fixes and their intera
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Jay
Maynard [jaymayn...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2023 9:49 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: not using SMPe
Yes, there are indeed Linux package managers. They don't get beyond the
&qu
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of
David Spiegel [0468385049d1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2023 10:05 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: not using SMPe
Hi Ed,
Thank you for the compliment!
(Yeshiva training really
Hi Ed,
Thank you for the compliment!
(Yeshiva training really pays off for arguing logically.)
Now that I'm telling bank stories (this should really be a separate
thread) ...
At the same bank ...
One day (1990), a colleague comes over and asks for help with his batch
job failing.
I looked at i
ussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf
> of Jay Maynard [jaymayn...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2023 5:33 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: not using SMPe
>
> That's because SMP/E and its power are only truly present in the z/OS and
> pred
On 3/14/2023 6:05 PM, David Spiegel wrote:
Hi Ed,
I knew that there were means of ensuring integrity and that's why I
asked the question.
It was a brilliant question!
His ignorance about why he should trust tape was the same reason he
distrusted the communication line.
--
Phoenix Software
Hi Ed,
I knew that there were means of ensuring integrity and that's why I
asked the question.
Regards,
David
On 2023-03-14 18:52, Ed Jaffe wrote:
On 3/14/2023 3:07 PM, David Spiegel wrote:
I went over to the 2nd in command VM guy and asked why I would have
to wait a week for delivery of a t
Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Jay
Maynard [jaymayn...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2023 5:33 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: not using SMPe
That's because SMP/E and its power are only truly present in the z/OS and
predecessors world. Everyone
On 3/14/2023 3:07 PM, David Spiegel wrote:
I went over to the 2nd in command VM guy and asked why I would have to
wait a week for delivery of a tape when it could he delivered
electronically in under an hour.
He had this irrational xenophobia against it and since he was the
gatekeeper, his mana
Hi Gil,
This reminds me of a story ... I say that a lot, just ask my kids.
Way back in the late late '80s, I worked at a national Canadian bank.
They had been used to getting tapes from IBM when they ordered
maintenance (for both VM and MVS) and would not even consider VNET
compressed maintenanc
On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 14:21:34 -0700, Ed Jaffe wrote:
>...
>For such products, the value-add SMP/E provides is often just RECEIVE
>ORDER, but even that is dependent upon the software vendor standing up a
>RECEIVE ORDER server back at the "Ranch."
>
Our sheriff deemed the MVS "Ranch" an outlaws'
That's because SMP/E and its power are only truly present in the z/OS and
predecessors world. Everyone else thinks of applying maintenance as a
matter of replacing the entire product, instead of individual fixes that
are automatically maintained and managed.
On Tue, Mar 14, 2023 at 4:22 PM Ed Jaff
On 3/14/2023 5:40 AM, Bill Giannelli wrote:
Just curious, is it possible and do some companies NOT use SMPe for z/OS
software updates?
thanks
Bill
The z/OSMF Portable Software Instance format does not require SMP/E.
Websphere uses Installation Manager.
SMP/E use for products like Java, NodeJ
On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 12:46:59 -0700, Tom Brennan wrote:
>...
>So I went back to my desk determined to map/dump the tape contents and
>do the install without knowing what SMP was. About 10 minutes later I
>gave up and looked for someone else to help :)
>
Sounds like the Good Old Days when (most)
gmu.edu/~smetz3
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of
Bill Giannelli [billgianne...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2023 8:40 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: not using SMPe
Just curious, is it possible and do some companies NOT use SMPe for z/OS
s
-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: not using SMPe
Just curious, is it possible and do some companies NOT use SMPe for z/OS
software updates?
thanks
Bill
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Hi Steve,
Thanks for your answer!
Also, more specifically, for IBM software itself.
Is it possible? Or is it an IBM requirement? Just curious, as it was asked of
me. Not planning on doing it without SMPe!
To use IEBUPDTE IEBCOPY.you end up doing manually what SMPe does
automatically in th
On 3/14/2023 8:40 AM, Bill Giannelli wrote:
Just curious, is it possible and do some companies NOT use SMPe for z/OS
software updates?
thanks
Bill
I take it from your question that you have software provided by
third parties and do not see an associated CSI for them?
Yes, there are some com
Hi Bill,
If there are companies that do this, they're certifiably insane.
Imagine opening a case with IBM. The IBM person asks: "Is PTF AB12345
APPLYd?"
Regards,
David
On 2023-03-14 08:40, Bill Giannelli wrote:
Just curious, is it possible and do some companies NOT use SMPe for z/OS
software
Just curious, is it possible and do some companies NOT use SMPe for z/OS
software updates?
thanks
Bill
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