RE: Make the Internet uncensorable to intermediate nodes

2010-03-21 Thread Greg Daley
Dear MtFBwU, Please excuse my weasel words. My country is apparently about to adopt an internet censorship scheme. I'm not happy about it, but I'm unlikely to build a system to circumvent the "protection". I would actually not encourage IETF to work on such a technology as this, particularly in

RE: Gen-ART LC/Tekechat Review of draft-ietf-geopriv-loc-filters-10

2010-03-21 Thread Thomson, Martin
So, the rate control does recognize that the first notify message can be empty or might not contain all state: $3.2: Thus, the first notification might be empty, or certain values might be absent. The text that was originally quoted, that we're discussing is this: A compliant notifier M

RE: Gen-ART LC/Tekechat Review of draft-ietf-geopriv-loc-filters-10

2010-03-21 Thread Thomson, Martin
Ben wrote: > > I was not under the impression from reading rate-control that that document > > was modifying 3265 to prevent notifiers from sending an empty notify. But, > > your suggestion is a reasonable one. Reading the rate-control text you > > quoted earlier in the thread could lead to t

RE: Gen-ART LC/Tekechat Review of draft-ietf-geopriv-loc-filters-10

2010-03-21 Thread Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo)
If rate-control gives the impression that it disallows empty NOTIFYs to be sent then rate-control needs to change. If location is not available at the time when the SUBSCRIBE hits the location server then the server just cannot send something. Do you agree with me? >-Original Message- >F

RE: Gen-ART LC/Tekechat Review of draft-ietf-geopriv-loc-filters-10

2010-03-21 Thread Thomson, Martin
Ben wrote: > There's a few ways to handle that: > > 1) Treat rate-control as an informative reference, and say you're doing > something mostly like rate control, but not quite identical. That would > require quite a bit more normative language to describe what you're actually > doing. > > 2) Mak

Re: Last Call: draft-ogud-iana-protocol-maintenance-words

2010-03-21 Thread Samuel Weiler
On Thu, 18 Mar 2010, Brian E Carpenter wrote: In my opinion this is not ready for prime time. +1 I concur with Brian's points #1 and #2. I'm further concerned about DISCOURAGED. Here it is defined as "Implementations SHOULD support this functionality," which seems very counter-intuitive.

Re: [NSIS] Last Call: draft-ietf-nsis-rmd (RMD-QOSM - The Resource Management in Diffserv QOS Model) to Experimental RFC

2010-03-21 Thread Georgios Karagiannis
Hi Jerry Based on your latest comments I have changed the new appendix section A.6, see below: A.6. Example on matching the initiator QSPEC to the local RMD-QSPEC Section 3.4 of [QSP-T] describes an example of how the QSPEC can be Used within QOS-NSLP. Figure A.4 illustrates a situation

Re: [NSIS] Last Call: draft-ietf-nsis-rmd (RMD-QOSM - The Resource Management in Diffserv QOS Model) to Experimental RFC

2010-03-21 Thread Georgios Karagiannis
Hi Jerry Thanks for the comments! Please see in line! On 3/19/2010, "Gerald Ash" wrote: >Looks good, and adds clarity to how RMD-QOSM functions.  Two comments: >  >1. RE >"   Thus in our example we calculate b as: > >      b = p * MPS * "period of time". > >   For this VoIP example, we can ass

Re: Make the Internet uncensorable to intermediate nodes

2010-03-21 Thread Phillip Hallam-Baker
Some of the censorship schemes in place are actually quite trivial. And in some cases the issue is not one of controlling information but saving face. Tor provides a reasonably effective bypass system, probably as good as you can expect on an online scheme. The resistance in Cuba uses USB thumb d

Re: Why the normative form of IETF Standards is ASCII

2010-03-21 Thread Phillip Hallam-Baker
We issue errata for RFCs. Most errata address a substantive defect in the text that would affect the protocol. The RFC may be 'authoritative' (whatever that is meant to mean) but the errata is almost certainly what someone would want to actually implement to make the protocol work. I remember a c

Re: [NSIS] Last Call: draft-ietf-nsis-rmd (RMD-QOSM - The Resource Management in Diffserv QOS Model) to Experimental RFC

2010-03-21 Thread Gerald Ash
Looks good, and adds clarity to how RMD-QOSM functions.  Two comments:   1. RE "   Thus in our example we calculate b as:       b = p * MPS * "period of time".    For this VoIP example, we can assume that this period of time is 1,5    seconds, see below:       b = 1 octets/s * 220 octets * 1

Re: Last Call: draft-ogud-iana-protocol-maintenance-words (Definitions for expressing standards requirements in IANA registries.) to BCP

2010-03-21 Thread Samuel Weiler
On Thu, 18 Mar 2010, Brian E Carpenter wrote: In my opinion this is not ready for prime time. +1 I concur with Brian's points #1 and #2. I'm further concerned about DISCOURAGED. Here it is defined as "Implementations SHOULD support this functionality," which seems very counter-intuitive.

Re: What day is 2010-01-02 (and what time is it)

2010-03-21 Thread Phillip Hallam-Baker
This is something that I have not seen any calendar software do right. I agree with the argument that time zones for future events should be strings, not numbers. OK so you might need to do a lookup to disambiguate, but that is because there is a possibility of change. I once had a MrCoffee machin

Re: On the IAB technical advice on the RPKI

2010-03-21 Thread Phillip Hallam-Baker
That is what people asked me to do in 2000 with respect to DNSSEC. Ten years later we are just about to have a Bar BOF (not even a real one) on how to get end-entity key information into the TLDs. I don't think anyone would want to make that mistake again. My approach to solving problems is to an

Re: What day is 2010-01-02

2010-03-21 Thread Phillip Hallam-Baker
Well quite, I said that it illustrated the mode of argument, not that the arguments were valid. The arguments made on behalf of 'astronomers' are of course made by assertion without bothering to ask what astronomers might think. Every time someone proposes removing some archaic piece of junk from

Re: On the IAB technical advice on the RPKI

2010-03-21 Thread Danny McPherson
> > Given these observations, the public declaration last year by the NRO > that all 5 RIRs will offer RPKI service as of 1/1/11, and the ongoing > SIDR WG efforts, most of this discussion seems OBE at this stage. Steve, Thanks for your comments here, not surprisingly, they're spot on... Additi

Re: On the IAB technical advice on the RPKI

2010-03-21 Thread Phillip Hallam-Baker
Before declaring victory, lets see if anyone actually uses it to validate any data. X.509v3 is a proven technology in the field of authentication. Attempts to make it do more than authentication do not have a good record. If a RIR makes an unintentional error, it will be due to a software error.

3D Technology Comes to Military and Security Forces

2010-03-21 Thread Casey Farrell
Was just reading in NAUS (Uniformed Services Journal) Magazine; March/April 2010 a couple fo FACTOIDS1 The US ARMY has only SEVEN (7) "OFFICERS CLUBS" in the entire USA! 2. The US NAVY is 'PEE-TESTING" its PERSONEL...YEAR-ROUND...looking out for 'TRACE OF NEAR-BEER!" (2%!)..ie .the further

Re: Gen-ART LC/Tekechat Review of draft-ietf-geopriv-loc-filters-10

2010-03-21 Thread Ben Campbell
On Mar 21, 2010, at 3:49 PM, Thomson, Martin wrote: > So, the rate control does recognize that the first notify message can be > empty or might not contain all state: > > $3.2: Thus, the first notification might be empty, or certain values might > be absent. > > The text that was originall

Re: Gen-ART LC/Tekechat Review of draft-ietf-geopriv-loc-filters-10

2010-03-21 Thread Ben Campbell
On Mar 21, 2010, at 3:24 PM, Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo) wrote: > If rate-control gives the impression that it disallows empty NOTIFYs to > be sent then rate-control needs to change. If location is not available > at the time when the SUBSCRIBE hits the location server then the server > ju

Re: Gen-ART LC/Tekechat Review of draft-ietf-geopriv-loc-filters-10

2010-03-21 Thread Ben Campbell
On Mar 21, 2010, at 3:12 PM, Thomson, Martin wrote: > Ben wrote: >> There's a few ways to handle that: >> >> 1) Treat rate-control as an informative reference, and say you're doing >> something mostly like rate control, but not quite identical. That would >> require quite a bit more normative

Re: IETF-77 Clouds bar BoF at 11:30 AM on Thursday, 3/25/2010

2010-03-21 Thread Bhumip Khasnabish
Dear All, I just got the room assignment for *Clouds bar BoF (Thursday, March 25, 2010 at 11:30 AM). * We'll meet in *Pacific B room (Ballroom level, 2nd floor) of Hilton Anaheim. * Hilton is working on bringing a sandwich/lunch-box trolley in the Pacific B room at ~ 11 am on 3/25/10. Many thanks

IETF-77 Clouds bar BoF at 11:30 AM on Thursday, 3/25/2010

2010-03-21 Thread Bhumip Khasnabish
Dear All. Based on your responses in Doodle survey ( http://www.doodle.com/q9fexcsfyi9tuvfw?adminKey=3Dsymbd6w4) it appears that most convenient time for the Clouds bar BoF during IETF-77 will be 11:30 AM (to ~ 1 PM) on Thursday, March 25, 2010. So please mark that time in your calendar for Cloud

Re: A state of spin ... presented in ASCII

2010-03-21 Thread Doug Ewell
Masataka Ohta wrote: Many Kanji characters in JIS are displayed with Japanese font while many other Kanji characters not in JIS are some Chinese font, because of lack of information of unicode, which has been obvious long before I wrote 1815. Is it your opinion that inadequate font coverag

Re: Why the normative form of IETF Standards is ASCII

2010-03-21 Thread Doug Ewell
Masataka Ohta wrote: As many Japanese type Yen sign, when he actually want to input back slash, the JIS character of Yen sign is converted to unicode character of Yen sign, which is not back slash, which was the intention. I think this means that the user's kludge, in typing a yen sign to g

Re: Why the normative form of IETF Standards is ASCII

2010-03-21 Thread Masataka Ohta
Doug Ewell wrote: > See, if you use any encoding of Unicode, you won't have this problem, > because U+005C is unequivocally the backslash and U+00A5 is > unequivocally the yen sign. There are no context-dependent "duals" in > Unicode. Character issues are a lot more complicated than you can i

Re: A state of spin ... presented in ASCII

2010-03-21 Thread Masataka Ohta
Doug Ewell wrote: > For more information on this enlightening and forward-thinking approach > to internationalization, the interested reader may be directed to RFC 1815. Thank you for a good reference. Today, people in Japan receiving unicode encoded Chinese mail do suffer and complain. Many K

Wednesday Plenary Preparation

2010-03-21 Thread IETF Chair
To make the plenary session slightly more efficient the IAOC and the IESG would appreciate if you would compose a mail with the topic you want to bring up during the open mic portion of the agenda. This would allow a more thoughtful response. This is not an attemt in any way to stifle questions t

Data points with screenshots, on specification publishing formats

2010-03-21 Thread Tim Bray
If you add up the numbers, about a quarter of a million seriously Internet-capable mobile devices are being sold every day between iPhone, Android, and Blackberry. I'd like to illustrate the experience with some screenshots from such a device - this happens to be a Nexus One Android, which is a ty

Re: Why the normative form of IETF Standards is ASCII

2010-03-21 Thread Doug Ewell
Masataka Ohta wrote: Yes, but, ASCII back slash is already a little too much enough for us Japanese, because, in Japan, JIS Latin, which assigne Yen sign to the code point of back slash, is so widely used. See, if you use any encoding of Unicode, you won't have this problem, because U+005C

Re: Why the normative form of IETF Standards is ASCII

2010-03-21 Thread Masataka Ohta
Julian Reschke wrote: >> What exactly is the purpose of "a few non-ASCII characters everybody can >> display"? And while the environments that I use are mostly capable >> to display ISO-Latin-1, I do _NOT_ know names for the majority of symbols >> from> 128, and would have severe difficulties di

Re: Gen-ART LC/Tekechat Review of draft-ietf-geopriv-loc-filters-10

2010-03-21 Thread Ben Campbell
Hi Hannes, Thanks for the response. Comments inline. I deleted sections that I believe to be resolved. Thanks! Ben. On Mar 21, 2010, at 10:34 AM, Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo) wrote: > Hi Ben, > > Thanks for your detailed review. Please find my response inline. > An updated version o

RE: Gen-ART LC/Tekechat Review of draft-ietf-geopriv-loc-filters-10

2010-03-21 Thread Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo)
Hi Ben, Thanks for your detailed review. Please find my response inline. An updated version of the draft will be submitted in the next few days. >-Original Message- >From: ietf-boun...@ietf.org [mailto:ietf-boun...@ietf.org] On >Behalf Of ext Ben Campbell >Sent: 09 March, 2010 18:00

Re: Periodic debates

2010-03-21 Thread Sean Turner
Dave CROCKER wrote: On 3/11/2010 7:32 AM, Donald Eastlake wrote: Periodically, there are flame wars on the IETF mailing list that the IETF should / shouldn't... Mayhap we should create a FAQ wiki that captures the essence of these debates, so that we can simply cite the relevant entry when

Re: Why the normative form of IETF Standards is ASCII

2010-03-21 Thread Julian Reschke
On 20.03.2010 00:26, Martin Rex wrote: ... When I submitted my very first I-D last November, it took me about 10 minutes to fix the few issues that idnits reported. If you have significantly more problems, then maybe you are using the wrong tool to write I-Ds. Try NRoffEdit. It will take care

Re: Make HTML and PDF more prominent, was: Re: Why the normative

2010-03-21 Thread Julian Reschke
On 20.03.2010 00:15, Martin Rex wrote: ... I'm doing a significant part of my work, including EMail, in 8-bit xterm using iso-latin-1 fonts and a Mail User Agent that ignores code pages. ... How is that relevant? Out of curiosity, I tried to look at a couple of Web Sites today with a Netscape

Re: Why the normative form of IETF Standards is ASCII

2010-03-21 Thread Julian Reschke
On 19.03.2010 09:47, Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote: ... (That would also help with the other kind of cross references, "see [19] section 4.2" when [19] is updated. The likelihood that 4.2 is renumbered shrinks, since xml2rfc can warn when it happens.) ... The preferred RFC editor style is symbolic nam

Re: Why the normative form of IETF Standards is ASCII

2010-03-21 Thread Julian Reschke
On 20.03.2010 00:45, Martin Rex wrote: Julian Reschke wrote: I don't buy that. We've got something like 1 billion people on the planet running web browsers, and I'm pretty confident we can find a few non-ASCII characters everybody can display which could be used in examples. What exactly is t

Audio Streaming Update 3/21 - IETF 77 March 21-26, 2010

2010-03-21 Thread Joel Jaeggli
Greetings, The following is an update on the state of the audio streaming for Sunday march 21. The following two sessions will be streamed on Channel-7 (Palos Verdes) 1000-1200 IEPG Meeting - Palos Verdes 1300-1450 Newcomer's Training - Palos Verdes http://videolab.uoregon.edu/events/ietf/iet

Re: A state of spin ... presented in ASCII

2010-03-21 Thread Doug Ewell
Masataka Ohta wrote: If your scope is limited within UK, FR and DE, Latin-1 could be usable, within Europe (including countries using European languages/characters), unicode could be. But, if your scope includes CN and JP, unicode is useless for plain text communication but ISO-2022-JP-2 c

Re: Why the normative form of IETF Standards is ASCII

2010-03-21 Thread Masataka Ohta
Andrew Sullivan wrote: > I had, in the past year, two different DNSEXT participants send me > frustrated email because of the idnits checks. The people in question > were both long-time contributors to the IETF with perhaps > ideosyncratic toolchains. Neither of them was using xml2rfc, and > nei

Re: Why the normative form of IETF Standards is ASCII

2010-03-21 Thread Andrew Sullivan
On Sat, Mar 20, 2010 at 02:55:56PM -0800, Bob Braden wrote: > Drafts. That always seemed counter-productive to me. I am not sure I > would characterize the problem as "serious", but it does seem t o warp > common sense for the sake of bureaucratic uniformity.) I got some mail off-list about