Re: isoc's skills

2004-10-11 Thread Brian E Carpenter
Dave, Dave Crocker wrote: ... I believe that policy concerns are best addressed by ISOC. Because ISOC's role in the standards process is at one remove, it can work to educate legislatures and administrations without appearing to favor one participant over the other. That sounds wonderful, excep

Re: isoc's skills

2004-10-11 Thread Dave Crocker
Brian, > > > ... I believe that policy concerns are best addressed by > > > ISOC. Because ISOC's role in the standards process is at > > > one remove, it can work to educate legislatures and > > > administrations without appearing to favor one > > > participant over the other. > > That soun

RE: isoc's skills

2004-10-11 Thread Tony Hain
t; From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Dave Crocker > Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 10:00 AM > To: Brian E Carpenter > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: isoc's skills > > Brian, > > > > > ... I believe that policy concern

RE: isoc's skills

2004-10-12 Thread Dave Crocker
Tony, Thanks for the followup. > You are correct we need a detailed documentation of the > interface before we deal with any corporate entity. As I see > it the differences between your opinion and others has more > to do with your focus on the interface than the > organizational structure

RE: isoc's skills

2004-10-12 Thread Pete Resnick
On 10/12/04 at 6:37 PM -0700, Dave Crocker wrote: Before we make strategic choices it is our responsibility. And that means before we even go out for 'bids'. If we only worry about the details after we have chosen the contractor, we will probably choose the wrong contractor and we certainly wi

RE: isoc's skills

2004-10-12 Thread Margaret Wasserman
Hi Dave, I appreciate your feedback on the AdminRest process and documents, and I have no doubt that your comments are motivated by a desire to help the IETF make the best decisions possible. I think that is true of everyone involved in this process, even when we are strongly disagreeming abou

Re: isoc's skills

2004-10-12 Thread Sam Hartman
> "Dave" == Dave Crocker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Dave> My focus is on knowing what the details of the jobs are that Dave> we want done. Referring to the interface(s) is a convenient Dave> technique for trying to surface those details. Dave> Currently we do not have the det

RE: isoc's skills

2004-10-12 Thread JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
Dear Margaret and Pete, I understand your position. It would be OK if status quo was the target. Who hires the contractors would then be neutral. But the situation calls for improvements. The first improvement is financial stability. This means to make the IETF deliverable pay better and to crea

RE: isoc's skills

2004-10-13 Thread Dave Crocker
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:11:32 -0500, Pete Resnick wrote: > Let me repeat: ISOC is not the contractor. > > ISOC, in scenario O, will hire the contractors to support the > IETF (according to IETF specifications). The structures we > desire in ISOC to do the hiring and (more importantly) > facilit

Re: isoc's skills

2004-10-13 Thread Brian E Carpenter
Dave, Dave Crocker wrote: Brian, ... I believe that policy concerns are best addressed by ISOC. Because ISOC's role in the standards process is at one remove, it can work to educate legislatures and administrations without appearing to favor one participant over the other. That sounds wonderful,

Re: isoc's skills

2004-10-13 Thread Eliot Lear
Dave Crocker wrote: The IETF is choosing ISOC to do a job. The IETF is specifying the job. If the IETF does not like the job that ISOC is doing, the IETF will get someone else to do it. And you think that isn't called "contractor"? See below. What label would you use? And how does it describ

Re: isoc's skills

2004-10-13 Thread Margaret Wasserman
What label would you use? And how does it describe something different from contracting? How about "parent organization"? I prefer the term "organizational home", because it doesn't raise the issue of who conceived whom. But, close enough. As far as the organizational chart goes, I'll take t

RE: isoc's skills

2004-10-13 Thread Thomas Gal
Crocker > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: isoc's skills > > On 10/12/04 at 6:37 PM -0700, Dave Crocker wrote: > > >Before we make strategic choices it is our responsibility. And that > >means before we even go out for 'bids'. > > > >If

Re: isoc's skills

2004-10-13 Thread Brian E Carpenter
Dave, ... ISOC won't be making any operational decisions? They will not control the purse strings? They will not make any hire/fire decisions? The IAOC will live inside ISOC, but ISOC will not have any actual power over the activities? Is that how everyone else is understanding this? I reall

RE: isoc's skills

2004-10-13 Thread John C Klensin
--On Tuesday, 12 October, 2004 18:37 -0700 Dave Crocker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >... > My focus is on knowing what the details of the jobs are that we > want done. Referring to the interface(s) is a convenient > technique for trying to surface those details. > > Currently we do not have the