Re: [ietf-dkim] New canonicalizations

2011-05-25 Thread Hector Santos
Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: > You could use an extension tag to capture the original > Content-Transfer-Encoding > as a hint to the canonical form that was signed, but that means the verifier > has to undo the conversion before computing the hashes, and it has to do that > bytewise precisely as

[ietf-dkim] No signatures, bad signatures, cousin domains

2011-05-25 Thread Murray S. Kucherawy
> -Original Message- > From: ietf-dkim-boun...@mipassoc.org [mailto:ietf-dkim-boun...@mipassoc.org] > On Behalf Of Scott Kitterman > Sent: Monday, May 23, 2011 10:12 AM > To: ietf-dkim@mipassoc.org > Subject: Re: [ietf-dkim] 8bit downgrades > > > Do you have numbers to show that broken si

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM Scouts, was 8bit downgrades

2011-05-25 Thread Ian Eiloart
On 25 May 2011, at 02:13, John R. Levine wrote: >> Interestingly enough, outlook tells me this message has been tampered >> with, but not sure why... > > Probably doesn't have the Comodo validation certificate. Maybe, but my Mac does, and it complains. As does a Thunderbird client and an Outlo

Re: [ietf-dkim] New canonicalizations

2011-05-25 Thread Alessandro Vesely
On 25/May/11 10:03, Hector Santos wrote: > How would 7/8 bit be considered? > > Personally, the STRIP C14N idea would work just fine by removing all > trailing WSP (CR, LF, SP) and for QP text, decode it first. I'm > considering updating my 2006 I-D to include the QP decoding logic. I propose

Re: [ietf-dkim] New canonicalizations

2011-05-25 Thread Hector Santos
Alessandro Vesely wrote: > On 25/May/11 10:03, Hector Santos wrote: >> How would 7/8 bit be considered? >> >> Personally, the STRIP C14N idea would work just fine by removing all >> trailing WSP (CR, LF, SP) and for QP text, decode it first. I'm >> considering updating my 2006 I-D to include th

Re: [ietf-dkim] No signatures, bad signatures, cousin domains

2011-05-25 Thread Michael Thomas
On 05/25/2011 01:05 AM, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: > Interesting. I ran some queries on our data for ebay.com, paypal.com, > chase.com and bankofamerica.com. In all cases, messages with failed > signatures were never tagged by Spamassassin, and at most 7% (usually less) > of unsigned mail wher

Re: [ietf-dkim] New canonicalizations

2011-05-25 Thread Alessandro Vesely
On 25/May/11 14:27, Hector Santos wrote: > Alessandro Vesely wrote: >> On 25/May/11 10:03, Hector Santos wrote: >>> How would 7/8 bit be considered? >>> >>> Personally, the STRIP C14N idea would work just fine by removing all >>> trailing WSP (CR, LF, SP) and for QP text, decode it first. I'm >>

Re: [ietf-dkim] No signatures, bad signatures, cousin domains

2011-05-25 Thread Murray S. Kucherawy
> -Original Message- > From: Michael Thomas [mailto:m...@mtcc.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 7:03 AM > To: Murray S. Kucherawy > Cc: ietf-dkim@mipassoc.org > Subject: Re: [ietf-dkim] No signatures, bad signatures, cousin domains > > Heuristic based systems like SA are subject to the

Re: [ietf-dkim] New canonicalizations

2011-05-25 Thread Hector Santos
Alessandro Vesely wrote: >>> 3) For text parts, completely remove /any/ whitespace. Additionally, >>> remove most punctuation, especially from begin and end of lines. >> >> Do we really need this? Do you know of cases related to this? > > The idea is to anticipate any unknown signature breaker.

Re: [ietf-dkim] New canonicalizations

2011-05-25 Thread John Levine
>The idea is to anticipate any unknown signature breaker. I'm pretty sure that's specifically out of scope. And I promise that whatever you do, short of wrapping the whole message in opaque armor, I can come up with something that will break it. Regards, John Levine, jo...@iecc.com, Primary Perp

Re: [ietf-dkim] New canonicalizations

2011-05-25 Thread MH Michael Hammer (5304)
> -Original Message- > From: ietf-dkim-boun...@mipassoc.org [mailto:ietf-dkim- > boun...@mipassoc.org] On Behalf Of John Levine > Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 12:59 PM > To: ietf-dkim@mipassoc.org > Cc: ves...@tana.it > Subject: Re: [ietf-dkim] New canonicalizations > > >The idea is to

Re: [ietf-dkim] 8bit downgrades

2011-05-25 Thread Hector Santos
Alessandro, with the undotting leading dot fix, I went back and adding code to adjust for this by undotting it in the C14N code and what a major difference compared to the failed rate listed before: Failure rates for level encoding type (OLD) +--

Re: [ietf-dkim] 8bit downgrades

2011-05-25 Thread Scott Kitterman
On Wednesday, May 25, 2011 02:04:45 PM Hector Santos wrote: ... > When I remove the domains I know, the rest is pretty much spam. ... Isn't that pretty generally true, DKIM or no DKIM. Scott K ___ NOTE WELL: This list operates according to http://mip

Re: [ietf-dkim] New canonicalizations

2011-05-25 Thread Dave CROCKER
On 5/25/2011 9:59 AM, John Levine wrote: >> The idea is to anticipate any unknown signature breaker. > > I'm pretty sure that's specifically out of scope. > > And I promise that whatever you do, short of wrapping the whole > message in opaque armor, I can come up with something that will > break

Re: [ietf-dkim] 8bit downgrades

2011-05-25 Thread Hector Santos
Scott Kitterman wrote: > On Wednesday, May 25, 2011 02:04:45 PM Hector Santos wrote: > ... >> When I remove the domains I know, the rest is pretty much spam. > ... > > Isn't that pretty generally true, DKIM or no DKIM. Sure, in general I would agree with that and most of it are single shot dea

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM Scouts, was 8bit downgrades

2011-05-25 Thread John R. Levine
It tells me signing and encryption certificates are valid and even their root certificates are valid... Well, something's wrong with it. I checked the signature in Alpine, Thunderbird, and Evolution, and they all agree it's fine. I went back and looked in more detail. The problem appears to

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM Scouts, was 8bit downgrades

2011-05-25 Thread Hector Santos
John R. Levine wrote: >>> It tells me signing and encryption certificates are valid and even their >>> root certificates are valid... >> >> Well, something's wrong with it. I checked the signature in Alpine, >> Thunderbird, and Evolution, and they all agree it's fine. > > I went back and looked i