Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM signature can mean it's safe to generate bounce?

2007-07-08 Thread Dave Crocker
John Levine wrote: An interesting side effect is that it would also suppress bounce messages from mailing lists, even if they resigned. I'm not sure if this is a feature or a bug. So, yeah, if the SSP associated with the MailFrom says "rfc2821.MailFrom" must match a DKIM signature, or somes

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM signature can mean it's safe to generate bounce?

2007-07-08 Thread John Levine
>> An interesting side effect is that it would also suppress bounce messages >> from mailing lists, even if they resigned. I'm not sure if this is a >> feature or a bug. >So, yeah, if the SSP associated with the MailFrom says >"rfc2821.MailFrom" must match a DKIM signature, or somesuch, then a >

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM signature can mean it's safe to generate bounce?

2007-07-07 Thread Douglas Otis
On Jul 7, 2007, at 10:55 AM, Dave Crocker wrote: Michael Thomas wrote: An interesting side effect is that it would also suppress bounce messages from mailing lists, even if they resigned. I'm not sure if this is a feature or a bug. I think that that will depend entirely on the way the S

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM signature can mean it's safe to generate bounce?

2007-07-07 Thread Scott Kitterman
On Friday 06 July 2007 20:09, Dave Crocker wrote: > Folks, > > I'm not sure whether this fits into SSP or not, since it does not seem to > require that a record be published. However... > > It seems to me that if a message has a DKIM signature and the signing > domain matches the domain in the rfc2

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM signature can mean it's safe to generate bounce?

2007-07-07 Thread Dave Crocker
Michael Thomas wrote: An interesting side effect is that it would also suppress bounce messages from mailing lists, even if they resigned. I'm not sure if this is a feature or a bug. I think that that will depend entirely on the way the SSP record is defined, much like the constraints on rf

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM signature can mean it's safe to generate bounce?

2007-07-07 Thread Michael Thomas
Dave Crocker wrote: Steve Atkins wrote: Given the DKIM sig and the "Return" SSP record, I'll generate it since the return address domain has said it's valid. Wouldn't you be better looking at the i= tag in the DKIM-Signature header, anyway? Since it's optional, I hadn't thought to rely o

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM signature can mean it's safe to generate bounce?

2007-07-07 Thread Hector Santos
Dave Crocker wrote: Folks, I'm not sure whether this fits into SSP or not, since it does not seem to require that a record be published. However... It seems to me that if a message has a DKIM signature and the signing domain matches the domain in the rfc2821.MailFrom command, then it is saf

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM signature can mean it's safe to generate bounce?

2007-07-07 Thread Dave Crocker
Steve Atkins wrote: Given the DKIM sig and the "Return" SSP record, I'll generate it since the return address domain has said it's valid. Wouldn't you be better looking at the i= tag in the DKIM-Signature header, anyway? Since it's optional, I hadn't thought to rely on it. Since it's int

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM signature can mean it's safe to generate bounce?

2007-07-07 Thread Steve Atkins
On Jul 6, 2007, at 6:56 PM, Dave Crocker wrote: Steve Atkins wrote: so, perhaps, an SSP record by the signing domain that says MailFrom is valid? Possibly. What's the problem you're trying to solve? I really hate it when people ask pragmatic questions like that. I mean, really Steve,

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM signature can mean it's safe to generate bounce?

2007-07-06 Thread Douglas Otis
On Jul 6, 2007, at 5:59 PM, Steve Atkins wrote: On Jul 6, 2007, at 5:31 PM, Douglas Otis wrote: On Jul 6, 2007, at 5:19 PM, Steve Atkins wrote: On Jul 6, 2007, at 5:09 PM, Dave Crocker wrote: Folks, I'm not sure whether this fits into SSP or not, since it does not seem to require th

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM signature can mean it's safe to generate bounce?

2007-07-06 Thread Steve Atkins
On Jul 6, 2007, at 6:56 PM, Dave Crocker wrote: Steve Atkins wrote: so, perhaps, an SSP record by the signing domain that says MailFrom is valid? Possibly. What's the problem you're trying to solve? I really hate it when people ask pragmatic questions like that. I mean, really Steve,

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM signature can mean it's safe to generate bounce?

2007-07-06 Thread Dave Crocker
Steve Atkins wrote: so, perhaps, an SSP record by the signing domain that says MailFrom is valid? Possibly. What's the problem you're trying to solve? I really hate it when people ask pragmatic questions like that. I mean, really Steve, didn't you know that value propositions are s pa

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM signature can mean it's safe to generate bounce?

2007-07-06 Thread John Levine
>How can a potential bounce generator know whether this particular message has >a validated return address? Note that the mere presence of a DKIM signature >does not guarantee this particular validation issue. > >That's why the SSP-type record might be necessary. Personally, I'd rather use BATV

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM signature can mean it's safe to generate bounce?

2007-07-06 Thread Douglas Otis
On Jul 6, 2007, at 5:36 PM, Michael Thomas wrote: Steve Atkins wrote: If the mail is sent by [EMAIL PROTECTED] (or a virus on their machine), with an envelope from address of [EMAIL PROTECTED] out through the DKIM stamping earthlink smarthost and you generate a bounce, that bounce will

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM signature can mean it's safe to generate bounce?

2007-07-06 Thread Steve Atkins
On Jul 6, 2007, at 5:31 PM, Douglas Otis wrote: On Jul 6, 2007, at 5:19 PM, Steve Atkins wrote: On Jul 6, 2007, at 5:09 PM, Dave Crocker wrote: Folks, I'm not sure whether this fits into SSP or not, since it does not seem to require that a record be published. However... It seems to

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM signature can mean it's safe to generate bounce?

2007-07-06 Thread Steve Atkins
On Jul 6, 2007, at 5:47 PM, John Levine wrote: If the mail is sent by [EMAIL PROTECTED] (or a virus on their machine), with an envelope from address of [EMAIL PROTECTED] out through the DKIM stamping earthlink smarthost and you generate a bounce, that bounce will go to Jane. Indeed. But does

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM signature can mean it's safe to generate bounce?

2007-07-06 Thread Steve Atkins
On Jul 6, 2007, at 5:30 PM, Dave Crocker wrote: Steve Atkins wrote: Am I missing something? If the mail is sent by [EMAIL PROTECTED] (or a virus on their machine), with an envelope from address of [EMAIL PROTECTED] out through the DKIM stamping earthlink smarthost and you generate a bo

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM signature can mean it's safe to generate bounce?

2007-07-06 Thread Dave Crocker
Michael Thomas wrote: If the mail is sent by [EMAIL PROTECTED] (or a virus on their machine), with an envelope from address of [EMAIL PROTECTED] out through the DKIM stamping earthlink smarthost and you generate a bounce, that bounce will go to Jane. Sure, but at least it's reduced to an int

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM signature can mean it's safe to generate bounce?

2007-07-06 Thread John Levine
>If the mail is sent by [EMAIL PROTECTED] (or a virus on their >machine), with an envelope from address of [EMAIL PROTECTED] out >through the DKIM stamping earthlink smarthost and you generate a >bounce, that bounce will go to Jane. Indeed. But does the signature mean that's OK? R's, John __

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM signature can mean it's safe to generate bounce?

2007-07-06 Thread Douglas Otis
On Jul 6, 2007, at 5:19 PM, Steve Atkins wrote: On Jul 6, 2007, at 5:09 PM, Dave Crocker wrote: Folks, I'm not sure whether this fits into SSP or not, since it does not seem to require that a record be published. However... It seems to me that if a message has a DKIM signature and the

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM signature can mean it's safe to generate bounce?

2007-07-06 Thread Michael Thomas
Steve Atkins wrote: On Jul 6, 2007, at 5:09 PM, Dave Crocker wrote: Folks, I'm not sure whether this fits into SSP or not, since it does not seem to require that a record be published. However... It seems to me that if a message has a DKIM signature and the signing domain matches the doma

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM signature can mean it's safe to generate bounce?

2007-07-06 Thread Douglas Otis
On Jul 6, 2007, at 5:09 PM, Dave Crocker wrote: Folks, I'm not sure whether this fits into SSP or not, since it does not seem to require that a record be published. However... It seems to me that if a message has a DKIM signature and the signing domain matches the domain in the rfc2821.M

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM signature can mean it's safe to generate bounce?

2007-07-06 Thread Dave Crocker
Steve Atkins wrote: Am I missing something? If the mail is sent by [EMAIL PROTECTED] (or a virus on their machine), with an envelope from address of [EMAIL PROTECTED] out through the DKIM stamping earthlink smarthost and you generate a bounce, that bounce will go to Jane. mumble. yeah.

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM signature can mean it's safe to generate bounce?

2007-07-06 Thread Steve Atkins
On Jul 6, 2007, at 5:09 PM, Dave Crocker wrote: Folks, I'm not sure whether this fits into SSP or not, since it does not seem to require that a record be published. However... It seems to me that if a message has a DKIM signature and the signing domain matches the domain in the rfc2821.M

[ietf-dkim] DKIM signature can mean it's safe to generate bounce?

2007-07-06 Thread Dave Crocker
Folks, I'm not sure whether this fits into SSP or not, since it does not seem to require that a record be published. However... It seems to me that if a message has a DKIM signature and the signing domain matches the domain in the rfc2821.MailFrom command, then it is safe to generate a bounc