Re: Patrick Faltstrom message: Why SiteLocal is not what solves the problems people want to solve

2003-04-06 Thread Brian E Carpenter
Tony, Tony Hain wrote: ... > ... It is > incumbent on the IPv6 WG to deliver a viable PI replacement BEFORE > removing the only PI addressing model we have. This is where we disagree. I think we have learnt since FEC0::/10 was defined (in 1995) that ambiguous PI space is *not* viable, as a resul

Re: Patrick Faltstrom message: Why SiteLocal is not what solves the problems people want to solve

2003-04-06 Thread Dan Lanciani
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=E4ltstr=F6m?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: |On lördag, apr 5, 2003, at 22:24 Europe/Stockholm, Dan Lanciani wrote: | |> -When (and how) did site-locals become the main obstacle standing in |> the |> way of solving the routing/identifier problem? |> |> -When (and how) did all

Re: Patrick Faltstrom message: Why SiteLocal is not what solves the problems people want to solve

2003-04-06 Thread Patrik Fältström
On lördag, apr 5, 2003, at 22:24 Europe/Stockholm, Dan Lanciani wrote: -When (and how) did site-locals become the main obstacle standing in the way of solving the routing/identifier problem? -When (and how) did all the other reasons that have been advanced to stymie any work on the routing/iden

Re: Patrick Faltstrom message: Why SiteLocal is not what solves the problems people want to solve

2003-04-05 Thread Dan Lanciani
Margaret Wasserman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: |>Please help me to understand something. I have been trying to get people to |>look at the portable identifier/routing problem for _years_. | |Various people _have_ been looking at this problem for years. In fact, |the IPv6 WG toyed with it for a wh

Re: Patrick Faltstrom message: Why SiteLocal is not what solves the problems people want to solve

2003-04-05 Thread Margaret Wasserman
Hi Dan, Please help me to understand something. I have been trying to get people to look at the portable identifier/routing problem for _years_. Various people _have_ been looking at this problem for years. In fact, the IPv6 WG toyed with it for a while in the mid-1990s. I agree that this is _t

Re: Patrick Faltstrom message: Why SiteLocal is not what solves the problems people want to solve

2003-04-05 Thread Dan Lanciani
Mika Liljeberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: |> > Great. Let's work on that problem now. |> |> Yes, of course we should. But, I think we can not get real force behind |> such work before we _first_ agree Site Local is not solving this |> problem, and we therefore agree Site Local should go away.

Re: Patrick Faltstrom message: Why SiteLocal is not what solves the problems people want to solve

2003-04-05 Thread Dan Lanciani
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=E4ltstr=F6m?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: |On lördag, apr 5, 2003, at 00:37 Europe/Stockholm, Dan Lanciani wrote: | |> Great. Let's make this PI space available FIRST and THEN we can get |> rid |> of site-locals with little trouble. |> |> |Yes, aggregation can not happen,

RE: Patrick Faltstrom message: Why SiteLocal is not what solves the problems people want to solve

2003-04-05 Thread Michel Py
Margaret, > Margaret Wasserman wrote: > Tony, allowing an interface to have two addresses: > - One that is globally routable and globally accessible, > and > - One that is stable and local, > is _exactly_ what I am proposing. > However, I am proposing that there is _no reason_ why > the stabl

RE: Patrick Faltstrom message: Why SiteLocal is not what solves the problems people want to solve

2003-04-05 Thread Margaret Wasserman
Tony, So even though the routing research group has not come up with a solution that simultaneously addresses all three of these in the last 10 years of focused work, the IPv6 WG will promise to come up with a solution quickly if we just deprecate the only viable approach we know of first. I guess

RE: Patrick Faltstrom message: Why SiteLocal is not what solves the problems people want to solve

2003-04-05 Thread Tony Hain
Margaret Wasserman wrote: > ... > What we _really_ want is to achieve all three of the > following things simultaneously: > > - All addresses are globally routable (note that this doesn't > preclude filtering some addresses or > address/port combos). > - Addres

Re: Patrick Faltstrom message: Why SiteLocal is not what solves the problems people want to solve

2003-04-05 Thread Margaret Wasserman
Hi Mika, At 02:21 PM 4/5/2003 +0300, Mika Liljeberg wrote: On Sat, 2003-04-05 at 13:11, Patrik Fältström wrote: > Yes, of course we should. But, I think we can not get real force behind > such work before we _first_ agree Site Local is not solving this > problem, and we therefore agree Site Local

Re: Patrick Faltstrom message: Why SiteLocal is not what solves the problems people want to solve

2003-04-05 Thread Patrik Fältström
On lördag, apr 5, 2003, at 00:37 Europe/Stockholm, Dan Lanciani wrote: Great. Let's make this PI space available FIRST and THEN we can get rid of site-locals with little trouble. |Yes, aggregation can not happen, |but, so what? I claim the number of routes today is still manageable, |and the _r

Re: Patrick Faltstrom message: Why SiteLocal is not what solves the problems people want to solve

2003-04-04 Thread Dan Lanciani
Patrick wrote: [...] |An application *should*always* use the hostname when communicating, and |that imply it should not cache the IP address of the peers or itself |between the flows are initiated which it needs. Yes, applications fail |regarding this, and IP stacks are too bad at keeping the l