Re: [IPsec] Feedback on the interim session's format

2009-02-05 Thread Paul Hoffman
At 9:43 AM -0700 2/5/09, Grewal, Ken wrote: >If there are alternatives that would allow operation over 'well known' ports >such as 80, then those would be preferable. Not necessarily. There are likely to be folks who have firewalls that inspect what goes on port 80 and, seeing non-HTTP gibberish

Re: [IPsec] draft-kivinen-ipsecme-esp-null-heuristics comments

2009-02-05 Thread Dragan Grebovich
I looked for some traffic stats in a real, large enterprise network and I found that UDP comprises 25-30% vs. TCP 70-75% of all traffic. The stats were measured on multiple places in the network, and multiple samples were taken over the past 6 weeks. Also, there is a slow but consistent growth of

Re: [IPsec] Feedback on the interim session's format

2009-02-05 Thread Grewal, Ken
I had the same problem with our corporate firewall and had to take the call from home and then cut off early to allow for travel time back to office before the next meeting. If there are alternatives that would allow operation over 'well known' ports such as 80, then those would be preferable.

Re: [IPsec] draft-kivinen-ipsecme-esp-null-heuristics comments

2009-02-05 Thread Grewal, Ken
By a 'colluding peer', I meant that both sides need to negotiate the same policy (e.g. this is sensitive data, so only allow encrypted traffic or vice versa). I think this boils down to how tight the admin policy is and also whether it is desirable to allow encrypted/clear policies for different

Re: [IPsec] Feedback on the interim session's format

2009-02-05 Thread Paul Koning
> "Yoav" == Yoav Nir writes: >> > Did you encounter any major technical problems (e.g. one >> person's > corporate firewall prevented him from joining)? >> >> Our corporate firewall did block teamspeak ports, but as I knew >> about this beforehand, I was able to get the firewall rules

Re: [IPsec] Bis issue #11: Clarify which traffic selectors

2009-02-05 Thread Paul Hoffman
[[ Changed the subject line because Tero didn't. No other changes. ]] At 2:34 PM +0200 2/5/09, Tero Kivinen wrote: > > IKEv2-bis >> Issue #11: Clarify which traffic selectors to use in rekeying. >> Paul: [unclear]. Tero: if you have SAs that violate the new >> policy, you e

Re: [IPsec] draft-kivinen-ipsecme-esp-null-heuristics comments

2009-02-05 Thread Paul Hoffman
At 9:52 AM +0200 2/5/09, Yaron Sheffer wrote: >Hi Gabriel, > >This thread is precisely the discussion that Paul mentions. > >The two alternatives I see on the table right now (Paul might have different >opinions) are: > >- Publish a modified/wrapped ESP as Standards Track, and heuristi

Re: [IPsec] Feedback on the interim session's format

2009-02-05 Thread Yoav Nir
Tero Kivinen wrote: > > Can we live with push-to-talk? > > Push-to-talk works well for normal discussion, but it was > impossible to use when giving presentation, which meant that > I myself changed the setting to voice activated microphone > when I started my presentation, and then changed back t

[IPsec] Draft minutes from the interim meeting

2009-02-05 Thread Tero Kivinen
> IKEv2-bis > Issue #11: Clarify which traffic selectors to use in rekeying. > Paul: [unclear]. Tero: if you have SAs that violate the new > policy, you either delete them or you rekey. Prefers a rekey, > even if this is narrowing the SA. Mostly useful for decorrelat

[IPsec] Feedback on the interim session's format

2009-02-05 Thread Tero Kivinen
Yaron Sheffer writes: > If you feel like going into detail, here are some things we would > like to understand: is the voice+IM format sufficient, or is > application sharing a Must? I think voice + IM is sufficient, but slide sharing would have been even better. Now it was sometimes bit hard to k

Re: [IPsec] draft-kivinen-ipsecme-esp-null-heuristics comments

2009-02-05 Thread Tero Kivinen
Grewal, Ken writes: > The 'bait and switch' attack where a connection uses ESP-NULL and > then at a later stage uses ESP-Encrypted may also be possible > unintentionally. E.g. Connection to a server (cluster / farm) to > gain access to a 'normal' service uses ESP-NULL and then at a later > stage, w

Re: [IPsec] draft-kivinen-ipsecme-esp-null-heuristics comments

2009-02-05 Thread Tero Kivinen
Grewal, Ken writes: > Cache eviction - how will this work? > We can keep adding SAs (based on heuristics), but how do we decide > when a given SA is no longer needed? This compounds the issues with > keeping state, as in the best case, cache eviction will likely be > policy based. How is the policy

Re: [IPsec] question about IKEv2 Re-direct

2009-02-05 Thread Yaron Sheffer
Also, REDIRECT_SUPPORTED needs to be sent by both peers if we want to enable this case. Otherwise, when the initiator wants to redirect its peer, it cannot know that the responder actually supports this capability. Thanks, Yaron > -Original Message- > From: ipsec-boun...@ietf.or

Re: [IPsec] draft-kivinen-ipsecme-esp-null-heuristics comments

2009-02-05 Thread Yaron Sheffer
Hi Ken, Yoav, I agree with Ken that the policy needs not be black and white, but for a different reason. Some people will treat deep packet inspection by middleboxes as an optional service: you want it for most traffic, but some traffic is too sensitive and you choose to prioritize confidential