Re: [Fwd: I-D Action:draft-ietf-6man-flow-update-00.txt]

2011-01-09 Thread Brian E Carpenter
When reviewing the text for the next update, I rediscovered that we do in fact say The proposed generic use is to encourage pseudo-random flow labels that can be used to assist load balancing. so (with draft-ietf-6man-flow-ecmp also in progress) I think Fred's point is covered. Regards

Re: [Fwd: I-D Action:draft-ietf-6man-flow-update-00.txt]

2011-01-09 Thread Fred Baker
The issue is that randomness doesn't help, if you want a scalable approach. It means that for each flow passing through the load balancing system, I have to store its flow label and assign it a path. What are the arguments against NATs? One of the big ones is the expectation of per-flow state

Re: [Fwd: I-D Action:draft-ietf-6man-flow-update-00.txt]

2011-01-09 Thread Brian E Carpenter
Fred, I'm confused. We've been talking for months about recommending pseudo-random flow label values as inputs to hash functions, precisely to allow scaleable and stateless load balancing and ECMP. I completely agree that per-flow state doesn't scale. Regards Brian Carpenter On 2011-01-10

Re: [Fwd: I-D Action:draft-ietf-6man-flow-update-00.txt]

2011-01-09 Thread Joel M. Halpern
Let me phrase Brian's comment differently. Presume we actually get wide use of the flow label in accordance with the load balancing draft. What can go wrong? Well, someone could send all their traffic with a single flow label, reducing the randomness. So what goes wrong. All of that

Re: [Fwd: I-D Action:draft-ietf-6man-flow-update-00.txt]

2011-01-09 Thread Steven Blake
On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 14:45:05 +1300, Brian E Carpenter brian.e.carpen...@gmail.com wrote: Fred, I'm confused. We've been talking for months about recommending pseudo-random flow label values as inputs to hash functions, precisely to allow scaleable and stateless load balancing and ECMP. I

Re: [Fwd: I-D Action:draft-ietf-6man-flow-update-00.txt]

2011-01-09 Thread Fred Baker
On Jan 9, 2011, at 5:45 PM, Brian E Carpenter wrote: I'm confused. We've been talking for months about recommending pseudo-random flow label values as inputs to hash functions, precisely to allow scaleable and stateless load balancing and ECMP. I completely agree that per-flow state

Re: [Fwd: I-D Action:draft-ietf-6man-flow-update-00.txt]

2011-01-09 Thread Fred Baker
On Jan 9, 2011, at 7:05 PM, Steven Blake wrote: The network doesn't control port numbers, so his argument obviously doesn't apply to ECMP or LAG. There are more than two common uses of load balancing. ECMP is a side effect of routing; we decide to multipath route when we know of two next