RE: last call comments for draft-ietf-6man-stable-privacy-addresses-06

2013-04-23 Thread Christian Huitema
Sorry I wasn't clear: what is the benefit of specifying the algorithm, when simply popping out another PRF will in just about any instance do the job (unless you are reinitializing the PRF with the same seed)? There seems to be a disconnect here: We want an algorithm that, roughly

RE: last call comments for draft-ietf-6man-stable-privacy-addresses-06

2013-04-23 Thread Christian Huitema
And I would observe that the DAD problem cannot be solved ina reliable way. Could you please elaborate? (Moving to the ipv6 mailing list, as this is way too detailed for the main IETF list.) The goal is to use the same address when repeatedly visiting the same network. However, since we

Re: last call comments for draft-ietf-6man-stable-privacy-addresses-06

2013-04-23 Thread Fernando Gont
On 04/23/2013 12:55 PM, Christian Huitema wrote: And I would observe that the DAD problem cannot be solved ina reliable way. Could you please elaborate? (Moving to the ipv6 mailing list, as this is way too detailed for the main IETF list.) The goal is to use the same address when

Re: last call comments for draft-ietf-6man-stable-privacy-addresses-06

2013-04-23 Thread Fernando Gont
On 04/23/2013 01:37 PM, Fernando Gont wrote: On 04/23/2013 12:55 PM, Christian Huitema wrote: And I would observe that the DAD problem cannot be solved ina reliable way. Could you please elaborate? (Moving to the ipv6 mailing list, as this is way too detailed for the main IETF list.) The

Re: last call comments for draft-ietf-6man-stable-privacy-addresses-06

2013-04-23 Thread Fernando Gont
On 04/23/2013 11:41 AM, Christian Huitema wrote: You might argue that, clearly, the autoconf prefix needs to be part of the seed (I'd personally not expect developers to figure this one out). This is the kind of attitude that really does not go well with actual developers. You are basically

RE: last call comments for draft-ietf-6man-stable-privacy-addresses-06

2013-04-23 Thread Christian Huitema
If I'm the guy producing a spec, my goal is to produce a spec that is clear as possible, and only leave open those bits that are necessary to leave open. Well, that might work for internal specs when you are managing a project, but that's probably not the right way to approach standards. A

Re: last call comments for draft-ietf-6man-stable-privacy-addresses-06

2013-04-23 Thread Fernando Gont
On 04/23/2013 07:45 PM, Christian Huitema wrote: If I'm the guy producing a spec, my goal is to produce a spec that is clear as possible, and only leave open those bits that are necessary to leave open. Well, that might work for internal specs when you are managing a project, but that's

Re: last call comments for draft-ietf-6man-stable-privacy-addresses-06

2013-04-22 Thread Sam Hartman
RJ == RJ Atkinson rja.li...@gmail.com writes: RJ I oppose Eliot's proposed edits on grounds that they would RJ reduce the clarity of the specification and also would reduce RJ IETF and WG consensus about this specification. Ran, I just checked, and you don't seem to be a 6man

Re: last call comments for draft-ietf-6man-stable-privacy-addresses-06

2013-04-22 Thread Martin Rex
Sam Hartman wrote: RJ Atkinson rja.li...@gmail.com writes: RJ I oppose Eliot's proposed edits on grounds that they would RJ reduce the clarity of the specification and also would reduce RJ IETF and WG consensus about this specification. Ran, I just checked, and you don't

Re: last call comments for draft-ietf-6man-stable-privacy-addresses-06

2013-04-22 Thread Fernando Gont
Hi, Eliot, On 04/22/2013 01:20 AM, Eliot Lear wrote: In the process of doing the apps area review, I came across some points that were not related to applications. The basis for these comments is precisely the sentiment that Russ Housley expressed, which is that the specification is done

Re: last call comments for draft-ietf-6man-stable-privacy-addresses-06

2013-04-22 Thread Eliot Lear
Hi Fernando, Thanks very much for your response. On 4/22/13 6:06 PM, Fernando Gont wrote: Hi, Eliot, On 04/22/2013 01:20 AM, Eliot Lear wrote: In the process of doing the apps area review, I came across some points that were not related to applications. The basis for these comments is

Re: last call comments for draft-ietf-6man-stable-privacy-addresses-06

2013-04-22 Thread Michael StJohns
At 09:56 AM 4/22/2013, Sam Hartman wrote: RJ == RJ Atkinson rja.li...@gmail.com writes: RJ I oppose Eliot's proposed edits on grounds that they would RJ reduce the clarity of the specification and also would reduce RJ IETF and WG consensus about this specification. Ran, I just

Re: last call comments for draft-ietf-6man-stable-privacy-addresses-06

2013-04-22 Thread Philipp Kern
Eliot, am Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 06:22:24PM +0200 hast du folgendes geschrieben: I asked the above question because it is at least conceivable that at some point host portion != 64 bits and this is the only place in the document where the requirement is stated. Yes, screwing with the 64 bit

Re: last call comments for draft-ietf-6man-stable-privacy-addresses-06

2013-04-22 Thread Fernando Gont
Hi, Eliot, On 04/22/2013 11:22 AM, Eliot Lear wrote: With this document, I wonder if quite a bit could be removed. Specifically, a great deal of discussion goes into the PRF involving DAD counters, etc, when all that is needed is a suitable PRF. Not sure what you mean...What's thetext that

Re: last call comments for draft-ietf-6man-stable-privacy-addresses-06

2013-04-22 Thread Mark Smith
Hi, snip I'm not thinking of today but the future.  And yes, another argument would be that there isn't enough address space for this to be effectively private.  Those are two different issues, but fixing the boundary here reminds me of mistakes we made with IPv4 way back when. In

Re: last call comments for draft-ietf-6man-stable-privacy-addresses-06

2013-04-22 Thread Eliot Lear
H Fernando, On 4/22/13 9:23 PM, Fernando Gont wrote: There seems to be a disconnect here: We want an algorithm that, roughly speaking, whenever you connect to the same network, gives you the same address. But such address should be different for each network you connect to. Thank you, and