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--- Comment #261 from Nate Graham ---
(In reply to RJVB from comment #260)
> (In reply to Nate Graham from comment #259)
> > Is there such an option for GTK and/or other toolkits?
>
> How is that relevant if KDE already has a sync service that
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
--- Comment #260 from RJVB ---
(In reply to Nate Graham from comment #259)
> Is there such an option for GTK and/or other toolkits?
How is that relevant if KDE already has a sync service that apparently does
what I'm suggesting? I have no idea what
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
--- Comment #259 from Nate Graham ---
(In reply to RJVB from comment #258)
> Remind me why it is again that KDE's systemsettings KCM can't set something
> that only affects KDE apps and give the user the option to configure the
> known corresponding
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
--- Comment #258 from RJVB ---
(In reply to brenbarn from comment #257)
> (In reply to Nate Graham from comment #253)
> > "ALERT! Changing this only affects KDE apps! It will not affect the way
> > dates are expressed in any non-KDE app such as
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
--- Comment #257 from brenb...@brenbarn.net ---
(In reply to Nate Graham from comment #253)
> Experience also shows that even
> if we did something super in-your-face and added a giant banner in the
> Region & Language KCM that said:
>
> "ALERT!
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
--- Comment #256 from Kevin Kofler ---
Also, there is no consistency anyway, since console and GTK applications use
glibc locales, whereas Qt uses ICU locales and only tries to map the glibc
locales to those internally. So you end up with en_DK working
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
--- Comment #255 from Kevin Kofler ---
I am in general very much for consistency, but being consistently wrong is just
not helpful. Even within a country, there can be distinct regional, local,
ethnical, or personal preferences, so just having these
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
--- Comment #254 from Dotan Cohen ---
(In reply to Nate Graham from comment #253)
> We can indeed implement option 1 and fix this issue for KDE apps.
>
Thank you. I'm sure that the two hundred people here commenting, and untold
frustrated others,
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
--- Comment #253 from Nate Graham ---
We can indeed implement option 1 and fix this issue for KDE apps.
If your perspective is "I would rather have it work the way I want at least
some of the time than none of the time", that's valid.
The problem is
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
--- Comment #252 from Dotan Cohen ---
(In reply to Nate Graham from comment #235)
> If this were clear-cut, it would have been done ages ago. Instead we have a
> trade-off to make:
> 1. Add the feature for only KDE apps, and then your non-KDE apps will
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
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--- Comment #249 from crptdng...@gmx.net ---
I am not sure if this has already been discussed previously, but this thread
has become so long over time I have lost control ^^
Could it be possible to create a new locale file from scratch that is named
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
--- Comment #248 from ric...@nakts.net ---
Regarding consistency, just remembered that the digital clock has "date format"
dropdown already (https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982#c155 ).
Perhaps eventually the solution is / will be all apps
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
--- Comment #247 from Kevin Kofler ---
(In reply to Ken Fallon from comment #242)
> My suggestion of a #4 rolling your own was very serious. I would appreciate
> someone helping me with a beginners guide to creating a custom locale for
> the different
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
--- Comment #246 from doom...@gmail.com ---
(In reply to Luca from comment #243)
> To be honest I don't understand some of the logic in this discussion.
>
> Are we really asking that KDE changes system's locales, making up some
> customized/able
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--- Comment #245 from Luca ---
(In reply to Aaron Wolf from comment #244)
> However, such *front-end* features (which are appropriate to KDE's ethos
> IMO) seem like they should be opened for specific front-end use cases.
> This ticket here (340982)
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
--- Comment #244 from Aaron Wolf ---
(In reply to Luca from comment #243)
> We're asking that KDE apps allow
> the users to combine these pieces of time information from the locale in
> ways that can be convenient for different apps.
Yes, thank you
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
--- Comment #243 from Luca ---
To be honest I don't understand some of the logic in this discussion.
Are we really asking that KDE changes system's locales, making up some
customized/able version? Personally I don't think so.
Several KDE apps provide
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
--- Comment #242 from Ken Fallon ---
To be 100% clear, the work that the teams are doing and the amount of time and
effort involved is appreciated.
It is also reasonable to ask for a bug like this to be fixed. If you're not
going to fix it then fine.
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
--- Comment #241 from Enrico Tagliavini ---
(In reply to Nate Graham from comment #235)
> If this were clear-cut, it would have been done ages ago. Instead we have a
> trade-off to make:
> 1. Add the feature for only KDE apps, and then your non-KDE
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
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--- Comment #240 from doom...@gmail.com ---
(In reply to Ken Fallon from comment #239)
> I think there is a fourth option.
>
> 4. Create a ugly hack where each user generates a custom locale for
> themselves
Which is pretty much what we have. Managed
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
--- Comment #239 from Ken Fallon ---
I think there is a fourth option.
4. Create a ugly hack where each user generates a custom locale for themselves
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--- Comment #238 from ric...@nakts.net ---
I'd guess Nate is saying that the dev team has decided that consistency is
their priority over this bit of usability for some users.
While personally I want this format customisation so bad, I can understand
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
--- Comment #237 from brenb...@brenbarn.net ---
(In reply to Nate Graham from comment #235)
> If this were clear-cut, it would have been done ages ago. Instead we have a
> trade-off to make:
> 1. Add the feature for only KDE apps, and then your non-KDE
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
--- Comment #236 from David Gasaway ---
(In reply to Nate Graham from comment #235)
> If this were clear-cut, it would have been done ages ago. Instead we have a
> trade-off to make:
> 1. Add the feature for only KDE apps, and then your non-KDE apps
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
--- Comment #235 from Nate Graham ---
If this were clear-cut, it would have been done ages ago. Instead we have a
trade-off to make:
1. Add the feature for only KDE apps, and then your non-KDE apps will display
all their formats incorrectly, or at
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
--- Comment #234 from arne anka ---
(In reply to doomcup from comment #233)
> Is aggravating users that are neither the devs at their dev laptops nor a
> hypothetical grandma non-expert user a project goal of KDE?
Yes, that's pretty much the current
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
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--- Comment #232 from Nate Graham
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--- Comment #230 from Borden ---
(In reply to brenbarn from comment #218)
> It sounds like what you're saying is, "if we fix it in KDE, it will be
> broken in non-KDE apps". But if we don't fix it in KDE, then it will be
> broken for all apps,
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
--- Comment #229 from Maxim Egorushkin ---
Thinking more about date format customisation, another option could be a file
or a few in .config directory, e.g.:
.config/date-format/default
.config/date-format/file
.config/date-format/clock
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
--- Comment #228 from bugs5.kde@sjau.ch ---
I can't believe that this was reported 8 years ago it's a regression.
And nothing happens.
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--- Comment #227 from Kevin Kofler ---
(e.g., the tooltip shows me today's date as "So. Sep. 25 2022" which is a
completely broken format, we do not put the month before the day in Austria)
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--- Comment #226 from Kevin Kofler ---
> Indeed, the date format in the plasma clock widget is already completely
> customizable with a field to enter the format code.
Only if you have it permanently displayed in the tray, which assumes a large
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
--- Comment #225 from Aaron Wolf ---
Indeed, the date format in the plasma clock widget is already completely
customizable with a field to enter the format code. Everything about that
existing is good. Even if system-wide qt-based custom formats were
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
--- Comment #224 from Jérôme Borme ---
One argument was that if an option is implemented in systemsettings (and not in
ICU/Qt/POSIX), then the behaviour of the plasma desktop will be inconsistent
with non-KDE applications are going to display
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
--- Comment #223 from EMR_Kde ---
(In reply to RJVB from comment #222)
> should be possible to avoid risk of ODR/ABI issues - I suppose. Heck, the
> new behaviour could even be conditional on something like an env. variable
> that "deviant" users like
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
--- Comment #222 from RJVB ---
Doesn't Qt have to be configured to use ICU, or is that only on non-linux/unix
platforms (Mac included)?
ICU uses hardcoded locale definitions?
FWIW, the specialty library approach I mentioned could of course provide
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--- Comment #221 from Kevin Kofler ---
(The POSIX, ICU, and Qt implementations are all based on a closed set of
locales determining all formatting preferences at country granularity. I do not
see that ever changing, because it is a core design
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
--- Comment #220 from Kevin Kofler ---
One issue is that dropping a locale file into a folder for glibc will not be
sufficient to fix it, because Qt does not actually use POSIX locales
internally, but ICU locales, and has a hardcoded mapping from POSIX
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
--- Comment #219 from RJVB ---
And what happened to the "there are no [more] KDE apps" (certainly not as
opposed to "mere" Qt apps) I got whacked with only a few years back, when the
KF5 frameworks were nothing more and nothing less than a set of
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
--- Comment #218 from brenb...@brenbarn.net ---
(In reply to Nate Graham from comment #214)
> As I said, if we do our own thing to fix it for only KDE apps, or only for
> Qt apps, we make apps' presentation of formats inconsistent across the OS.
> This
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
--- Comment #217 from Szokovacs Robert ---
(In reply to John Brooks from comment #216)
> I don't have particularly high hopes for amending POSIX to fix this, to be
> honest.
That is why KDE pre-5 (and gnome) did what it did. And could do again.
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--- Comment #216 from John Brooks ---
I don't have particularly high hopes for amending POSIX to fix this, to be
honest.
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--- Comment #215 from Keith Zubot-Gephart ---
With this bug remaining unresolved (in the colloquial sense ;)) for nearly a
decade now however, doesn't that seem like a matter of letting the perfect be
the enemy of the good? It certainly seems like if
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--- Comment #214 from Nate Graham ---
Again, please see
https://community.kde.org/Get_Involved/Issue_Reporting#Understand_what_the_resolution_statuses_mean.
In this context, "RESOLVED UPSTREAM" does not mean, "it's already fixed
upstream." It means
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--- Comment #213 from Aaron Wolf ---
(In reply to John Brooks from comment #211)
> Is the status supposed to be "resolved upstream"?
Yeah, I agree. It's not resolved. People discussing the idea that the best
resolution is upstream is not itself
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
--- Comment #212 from Nate Graham ---
Yes, that means it's upstream's job to change/fix/implement/etc. See
https://community.kde.org/Get_Involved/Issue_Reporting#Understand_what_the_resolution_statuses_mean
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--- Comment #211 from John Brooks ---
Is the status supposed to be "resolved upstream"?
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--- Comment #209 from John Brooks ---
(In reply to brenbarn from comment #208)
>
> To take a different approach: does anyone have an estimate of the amount of
> money that would be needed to motivate someone with the necessary knowledge
> to fix this?
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--- Comment #207 from John
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--- Comment #206 from Elmo R ---
(In reply to Elmo R from comment #205)
> (In reply to RJVB from comment #203)
> > Since blaming all of this on Qt is the default: you can actually hire them
> > to implement or change something in Qt.
> >
> >
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
--- Comment #205 from Elmo R ---
(In reply to RJVB from comment #203)
> Since blaming all of this on Qt is the default: you can actually hire them
> to implement or change something in Qt.
>
> Personally I think that the fact that KDE is built on Qt
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
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--- Comment #204 from Juha Tuomala ---
(In reply to hannu.alamaki from comment #118)
> Voting for customizability one way or another. My personal beef is with
> Finnish time format that has changed from sane hh:mm into insane hh.mm.
I find it strange
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--- Comment #203 from RJVB ---
Since blaming all of this on Qt is the default: you can actually hire them to
implement or change something in Qt.
Personally I think that the fact that KDE is built on Qt doesn't change the
fact that Qt =/= KDE, and
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
--- Comment #202 from Maxim Egorushkin ---
(In reply to Kevin Kofler from comment #201)
> Well, the thing is, Qt does not actually use the system-wide locales, i.e.,
> glibc/POSIX locales. What it does is map the glibc locale to a Unicode
> locale and
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
--- Comment #201 from Kevin Kofler ---
Well, the thing is, Qt does not actually use the system-wide locales, i.e.,
glibc/POSIX locales. What it does is map the glibc locale to a Unicode locale
and then use that with ICU and/or with bundled copies of
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
--- Comment #200 from Maxim Egorushkin ---
I did my +1 to this bug in 2016, and this issue appeared to be trivial at the
time for me, a fellow (naive) C++ developer, and a big fan of KDE Plasma.
It is a bit hard for me to fathom that such a seemingly
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
--- Comment #199 from Enrico Tagliavini ---
(In reply to cat22 from comment #198)
> To me, i would think it shouldn't take more than writing a function that
> does the work
> and a few lines of code to decide whether to call it or not. It just can't
>
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
--- Comment #198 from cat22 ---
(In reply to Nate Graham from comment #197)
> The bug is acknowledged. It's marked as CONFIRMED with a VHI ("very high")
> priority and various technical people have shown up to offer thoughts on how
> to proceed with
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
--- Comment #197 from Nate Graham ---
The bug is acknowledged. It's marked as CONFIRMED with a VHI ("very high")
priority and various technical people have shown up to offer thoughts on how to
proceed with resolving it. At this point the best way to
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
--- Comment #196 from Aaron Wolf ---
If this were fixed, it would also likely make it easier to resolve
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393956
Hesitant to just add another +1, but this issue is *so* awkward. The simple
capacity to override
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
--- Comment #195 from sombrag...@sombragris.org ---
(In reply to richlv from comment #193)
> A reminder to all the demanding commenters: this is an opensource community
> project.
> It is OK to be disappointed or sad - but the energy that is put in
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
--- Comment #194 from tdy...@hotmail.com ---
(In reply to richlv from comment #193)
> A reminder to all the demanding commenters: this is an opensource community
> project.
> It is OK to be disappointed or sad - but the energy that is put in demands
>
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
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--- Comment #193 from ric...@nakts.net ---
A reminder to all the demanding commenters: this is an opensource community
project.
It is OK to be disappointed or sad - but the energy that is put in demands
would be much better put elsewhere.
One might be
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
--- Comment #192 from sombrag...@sombragris.org ---
Nate, I really appreciate showing up and answering this issue, but really, this
state of things is simply not acceptable. I am not a developer, I don't know
how to handle pointers and structs and such,
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
--- Comment #191 from Nate Graham ---
Or better yet, submit everything upstream to QLocale. That would be even
better. IIRC that was what was supposed to happen during the Qt5 timeframe, but
it never happened, so we wound up with a crippled QLocale and
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
--- Comment #190 from Nate Graham ---
Yeah, if anyone wants to bring back KLocale and port everything to it, that
would be a path forward.
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--- Comment #189 from Kevin Kofler ---
The old kdelibs 3 code can be found here:
https://invent.kde.org/unmaintained/kdelibs/-/blob/KDE/3.5/kdecore/klocale.cpp
https://invent.kde.org/unmaintained/kdelibs/-/blob/KDE/3.5/kdecore/klocale.h
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--- Comment #188 from Kevin Kofler ---
Would it really be that much work to resurrect the old KLocale class from
kdelibs 3, forward-port it to Qt 5 or 6 and stuff it into a new Framework? Then
it would just be a matter of porting applications from
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
--- Comment #187 from RJVB ---
(In reply to Nate Graham from comment #182)
> To my knowledge, fixing this requires one of the following:
> 1. Change the Qt locale system to support the feature
> 2. Abandon the-in Qt locale system for this and implement
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--- Comment #185 from Smittie ---
My apologies for the double post.
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https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
--- Comment #184 from Smittie ---
(In reply to Nate Graham from comment #182)
> To my knowledge, fixing this requires one of the following:
> 1. Change the Qt locale system to support the feature
> 2. Abandon the-in Qt locale system for this and
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