Hi everyone,
last year I have started to push for KDE to gain more clarity about a
few key questions that we need to answer. These include such important
things like: What is it that we are trying to achieve? How do we want
the world of tomorrow to be different from how it is today?
When KDE star
On Wednesday 03 February 2016 10:10:27 Lydia Pintscher wrote:
> The first draft reads as follows:
> "KDE, through the creation of Free software, enables users to control
> their digital life. KDE software enables privacy, makes simple things
> easy and complex scenarios possible while crossing devi
On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 11:10 PM, Adriaan de Groot wrote:
> On Wednesday 03 February 2016 10:10:27 Lydia Pintscher wrote:
>> The first draft reads as follows:
>> "KDE, through the creation of Free software, enables users to control
>> their digital life. KDE software enables privacy, makes simple t
On Wednesday 03 February 2016 23:13:24 Lydia Pintscher wrote:
> > I'm asking this because I want to know what I should put into my
> > vision-ometer (a contraption that measures the visionariness) and what
> > (same) text I should compare to any other vision-statement that is
> > proposed.
>
> I l
On Wednesday, February 3, 2016 10:10:27 AM CET Lydia Pintscher wrote:
> The first draft reads as follows:
> "KDE, through the creation of Free software, enables users to control
> their digital life. KDE software enables privacy, makes simple things
> easy and complex scenarios possible while cross
On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 8:20 AM, Martin Graesslin wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 3, 2016 10:10:27 AM CET Lydia Pintscher wrote:
>> The first draft reads as follows:
>> "KDE, through the creation of Free software, enables users to control
>> their digital life. KDE software enables privacy, makes s
On Wednesday 03 February 2016 10:10:27 Lydia Pintscher wrote:
> The first draft reads as follows:
> "KDE, through the creation of Free software,
"through the creation of Free software" sounds like (part of) a mission
statement to me. I'd leave it out of the vision statement.
> enables users
IM
On Friday, February 5, 2016 10:03:27 AM CET Lydia Pintscher wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 8:20 AM, Martin Graesslin wrote:
> > On Wednesday, February 3, 2016 10:10:27 AM CET Lydia Pintscher wrote:
> >> The first draft reads as follows:
> >> "KDE, through the creation of Free software, enables us
On Friday, February 05, 2016 05:00:28 PM Ingo Klöcker wrote:
> On Wednesday 03 February 2016 10:10:27 Lydia Pintscher wrote:
> > The first draft reads as follows:
> > "KDE, through the creation of Free software,
>
> "through the creation of Free software" sounds like (part of) a mission
> stateme
I have two main questions. I'll make them as new threads.
KDE as a community currently has a clear unique selling point for new
projects; Qt libraries, Qt expertise, and connections. A common thread that
makes it worth being a community. We've seen this work in the past with
existing Qt projects l
On Tuesday, February 9, 2016 8:40:07 AM CET David Edmundson wrote:
> I have two main questions. I'll make them as new threads.
>
> KDE as a community currently has a clear unique selling point for new
> projects; Qt libraries, Qt expertise, and connections. A common thread that
> makes it worth be
On Tuesday, February 09, 2016 08:40:07 AM David Edmundson wrote:
> With the unfocussed vision,
Unfocused?
One vision focuses on technologies (Qt, GUI, etc.), one on values (Freedom,
user control, privacy). Both provide focus, just very different ones.
A vision is a goal, a desired result. That'
On Wednesday 03 February 2016 10:10:27 Lydia Pintscher wrote:
>
> The first draft reads as follows:
> "KDE, through the creation of Free software, enables users to control
> their digital life. KDE software enables privacy, makes simple things
> easy and complex scenarios possible while crossing
On Friday 05 February 2016 08:20:22 Martin Graesslin wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 3, 2016 10:10:27 AM CET Lydia Pintscher wrote:
> > The first draft reads as follows:
> > "KDE, through the creation of Free software, enables users to control
> > their digital life. KDE software enables privacy, m
Hello,
Sorry, but there was a bait I couldn't resist here. :-)
On Tuesday, 9 February 2016 11:55:35 CET Marco Martin wrote:
> * "makes simple things easy" not sure about that, aren't simple things
> already supposed to be easy? :p (makes doing things easy?)
In fact not, simple things can be terr
On Tuesday 09 February 2016 12:19:54 Kevin Ottens wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Sorry, but there was a bait I couldn't resist here. :-)
>
> On Tuesday, 9 February 2016 11:55:35 CET Marco Martin wrote:
> > * "makes simple things easy" not sure about that, aren't simple things
> > already supposed to be easy
On Tue, Feb 9, 2016 at 9:40 AM, David Edmundson
wrote:
> I have two main questions. I'll make them as new threads.
>
> KDE as a community currently has a clear unique selling point for new
> projects; Qt libraries, Qt expertise, and connections. A common thread that
> makes it worth being a commun
Thanks everyone for the comments and discussion so far. Please keep
them coming. We'll sit down to mingle the feedback into the second
draft this weekend.
Cheers
Lydia
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kde-community@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/lis
On Tue, Feb 9, 2016 at 5:41 AM, Lydia Pintscher wrote:
> The technology is something that does not belong into the vision.
Why? It would be strange for the tech organization/community like KDE,
IMHO of course.
PS: I reread the https://topnonprofits.com/examples/vision-statements/
list, and also
On Tue, Feb 9, 2016 at 8:01 PM, Alexander Dymo wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 9, 2016 at 5:41 AM, Lydia Pintscher wrote:
>> The technology is something that does not belong into the vision.
>
> Why? It would be strange for the tech organization/community like KDE,
> IMHO of course.
You cut off the part of
> TikiWiki or Drupal or whatever then the vision ("Imagine a world in
> which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all
> knowledge. That's our commitment.") would stay untouched because
Oh, so you guys have the duty to store the internet?
SCNR ;-)
_
On Tue, Feb 9, 2016 at 9:12 PM, Torsten Rahn wrote:
>
>> TikiWiki or Drupal or whatever then the vision ("Imagine a world in
>> which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all
>> knowledge. That's our commitment.") would stay untouched because
>
> Oh, so you guys have the duty to
On Tuesday, February 09, 2016 09:24:43 PM Lydia Pintscher wrote:
> But more seriously: Wikimedia's vision doesn't say that all the
> knowledge has to be with Wikimedia - just that it must be universally
> and freely accessible.
... which is, incidentally, the reason why they have been helping us a
On Tuesday, February 09, 2016 11:59:26 Marco Martin wrote:
...
> I fear a part of the explanation is very simple and very sad...
> the first time around every participant was young and willing to ride the
> change, today several generations are living together in KDE
here is the mail from Matthias
On Tuesday, February 09, 2016 10:41:07 Sebastian Kügler wrote:
...
> As Martin said very well already: By defining our goals not in terms of
> technology but in terms of values and principles, we don't lose the
> technology aspect, we are still experts in Qt,
sure we'll lose it long-term.
If we d
Hi,
I'll also start a new sub-thread.
Since this vision draft is very broad: what kind of projects do you consider
to be covered by this vision draft ?
Or, the other way round, are there projects, or types of projects which you
see as not part of this vision ?
Alex
On Tuesday, February 09, 2016 20:37:29 Lydia Pintscher wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 9, 2016 at 8:01 PM, Alexander Dymo wrote:
> > On Tue, Feb 9, 2016 at 5:41 AM, Lydia Pintscher wrote:
> >> The technology is something that does not belong into the vision.
> >
> > Why? It would be strange for the tech or
On Tuesday, February 09, 2016 23:07:56 Alexander Neundorf wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 09, 2016 10:41:07 Sebastian Kügler wrote:
> ...
>
> > As Martin said very well already: By defining our goals not in terms of
> > technology but in terms of values and principles, we don't lose the
> > technolo
On Tuesday, February 09, 2016 23:15:21 Alexander Neundorf wrote:
> I'll also start a new sub-thread.
> Since this vision draft is very broad: what kind of projects do you
> consider to be covered by this vision draft ?
> Or, the other way round, are there projects, or types of projects which you
On Tuesday, February 9, 2016 11:15:38 PM CET Alexander Neundorf wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 09, 2016 20:37:29 Lydia Pintscher wrote:
> > On Tue, Feb 9, 2016 at 8:01 PM, Alexander Dymo wrote:
> > > On Tue, Feb 9, 2016 at 5:41 AM, Lydia Pintscher wrote:
> > >> The technology is something that doe
On Feb 9, 2016 11:42 PM, "Sebastian Kügler" wrote:
>
> On Tuesday, February 09, 2016 23:07:56 Alexander Neundorf wrote:
> > On Tuesday, February 09, 2016 10:41:07 Sebastian Kügler wrote:
> > ...
> >
> > > As Martin said very well already: By defining our goals not in terms
of
> > > technology but
On Wednesday, February 10, 2016 7:59:20 AM BRST Clemens Toennies wrote:
> On Feb 9, 2016 11:42 PM, "Sebastian Kügler" wrote:
> >
> > On Tuesday, February 09, 2016 23:07:56 Alexander Neundorf wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, February 09, 2016 10:41:07 Sebastian Kügler wrote:
> > > ...
> > >
> > > > As Mart
On Wed, 10 Feb 2016, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
See my other, ridiculously long email about this. GNOME has a very different
philosophy. I agree with you that there are probably GTK based projects which
could fit just fine in KDE if we would be a bit less technology-focused.
Inkscape, for one, see
On Wednesday, February 10, 2016 07:59:20 Clemens Toennies wrote:
...
> Provoking thought:
> With the recent shift of Gnome to exclusivity (leading to mint x-apps,
> ubuntu forks), what if more and more GTK applications would become KDE
> projects because of shared values inside an independent, welc
On Tuesday, February 09, 2016 23:03:47 Sebastian Kügler wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 09, 2016 23:15:21 Alexander Neundorf wrote:
> > I'll also start a new sub-thread.
> > Since this vision draft is very broad: what kind of projects do you
> > consider to be covered by this vision draft ?
> > Or,
On Feb 10, 2016 10:01 PM, "Alexander Neundorf" wrote:
>
> So let's just assume Inkscape, since it was brought up here by Jos.
Clearly a
> GUI application, cross-platform and free. So far, clearly in. Our draft
says
> "familiar and consistent KDE user experience [...]. This is reached by
> followin
On Monday 08 February 2016 12:16:41 Sebastian Kügler wrote:
> On Friday, February 05, 2016 05:00:28 PM Ingo Klöcker wrote:
> >
> > So, how about
> > "KDE enables everyone to control their digital life without compromising
> > their privacy."
>
> That's getting really catchy!
>
> Really useful f
On Friday 05 February 2016 08:20:22 Martin Graesslin wrote:
>
> Thus now my question: How will this vision provide us guidance for the next
> disruption? How will we be able to use this vision to be a leader in the
> next disruption? Please explain why you think that the vision will help in
> the
On Wednesday, February 10, 2016 10:08:19 PM Alexander Neundorf wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 09, 2016 23:03:47 Sebastian Kügler wrote:
> > On Tuesday, February 09, 2016 23:15:21 Alexander Neundorf wrote:
> > > I'll also start a new sub-thread.
> > > Since this vision draft is very broad: what kind
On Thursday, February 11, 2016 10:06:57 Sebastian Kügler wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 10, 2016 10:08:19 PM Alexander Neundorf wrote:
> > On Tuesday, February 09, 2016 23:03:47 Sebastian Kügler wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, February 09, 2016 23:15:21 Alexander Neundorf wrote:
> > > > I'll also start a
On 11 February 2016 at 22:06, Alexander Neundorf wrote:
> so do I understand correctly that in general you would consider projects
> like
> a shell, a compiler and a text-mode editor as potential KDE projects ?
>
I honestly still find it strange that in this discussion we insist on
drawing a cir
On Thursday, February 11, 2016 10:06:33 PM CET Alexander Neundorf wrote:
> On Thursday, February 11, 2016 10:06:57 Sebastian Kügler wrote:
> > On Wednesday, February 10, 2016 10:08:19 PM Alexander Neundorf wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, February 09, 2016 23:03:47 Sebastian Kügler wrote:
> > > > On Tuesda
On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 3:16 PM, Riccardo Iaconelli wrote:
> I honestly still find it strange that in this discussion we insist on
> drawing a circle defining "what is/can be KDE" (which, once more, is not
> what the vision would be supposed to mean) way smaller than what KDE already
> is.
If KDE
> Honestly, after all these words, I don't think that this is a "focused"
> vision, but more of an "exclusive" one (from the verb "to exclude"). In my
> opinion this somehow invalidates the proposal itself, as it will be
> inapplicable to already existing, live and vibrant KDE projects.
Prioritiza
On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 1:04 AM, Martin Graesslin wrote:
> Why should there be a line?
I've been managing software development organizations since 2008. I
attest to the importance of drawing a line. There's so much you can do
with software. Unless you learn to say "no", you will not make a good
p
Hi,
On Friday, February 12, 2016 08:04:10 Martin Graesslin wrote:
> On Thursday, February 11, 2016 10:06:33 PM CET Alexander Neundorf wrote:
> > On Thursday, February 11, 2016 10:06:57 Sebastian Kügler wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, February 10, 2016 10:08:19 PM Alexander Neundorf wrote:
> > > > On Tu
On Freitag, 12. Februar 2016 12:07:27 CET Alexander Dymo wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 1:04 AM, Martin Graesslin
wrote:
> > Why should there be a line?
>
> I've been managing software development organizations since 2008. I
> attest to the importance of drawing a line. There's so much you can
On Friday, February 12, 2016 21:00:37 Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
...
> Maybe what you want is an overarching product vision instead of a community
> vision, after all?
I think I can answer at least for everybody from the alternative-draft team,
maybe also for the people who want more "direction" in K
On Feb 12, 2016 9:14 PM, "Alexander Neundorf" wrote:
>
> On Friday, February 12, 2016 21:00:37 Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> ...
> > Maybe what you want is an overarching product vision instead of a
community
> > vision, after all?
>
> I think I can answer at least for everybody from the alternative-dr
>> Maybe what you want is an overarching product vision instead of a community
>> vision, after all?
>
> I think I can answer at least for everybody from the alternative-draft team,
> maybe also for the people who want more "direction" in KDE: yes.
+1
It's "we do something useful" vs "we're h
On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 2:37 PM, Clemens Toennies
wrote:
> And you're "overarching (product) vision" to be adopted by all of KDE would
> have to specifically mention "based on Qt"?
It was a debatable point even within our group :) It was actually
pushed way down into the last part of the
On Feb 12, 2016 9:58 PM, "Alexander Dymo" wrote:
>
> On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 2:37 PM, Clemens Toennies
> wrote:
> > And you're "overarching (product) vision" to be adopted by all of KDE
would
> > have to specifically mention "based on Qt"?
>
> It was actually pushed way down into the last
On Feb 12, 2016 9:56 PM, "Alexander Dymo" wrote:
>
> >> Maybe what you want is an overarching product vision instead of a
community
> >> vision, after all?
> >
> > I think I can answer at least for everybody from the alternative-draft
team,
> > maybe also for the people who want more "direction" i
On Friday, February 12, 2016 21:37:23 Clemens Toennies wrote:
> On Feb 12, 2016 9:14 PM, "Alexander Neundorf" wrote:
> > On Friday, February 12, 2016 21:00:37 Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> > ...
> >
> > > Maybe what you want is an overarching product vision instead of a
>
> community
>
> > > vision,
On Feb 12, 2016 10:10 PM, "Alexander Neundorf" wrote:
>
> On Friday, February 12, 2016 21:37:23 Clemens Toennies wrote:
> > On Feb 12, 2016 9:14 PM, "Alexander Neundorf" wrote:
> > > On Friday, February 12, 2016 21:00:37 Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> > > ...
> > >
> > > > Maybe what you want is an ove
On Friday, February 12, 2016 8:57:36 PM CET Alexander Neundorf wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Friday, February 12, 2016 08:04:10 Martin Graesslin wrote:
> > On Thursday, February 11, 2016 10:06:33 PM CET Alexander Neundorf wrote:
> > > On Thursday, February 11, 2016 10:06:57 Sebastian Kügler wrote:
> > > > O
On Friday, February 12, 2016 11:45:53 AM CET Alexander Dymo wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 3:16 PM, Riccardo Iaconelli
wrote:
> > I honestly still find it strange that in this discussion we insist on
> > drawing a circle defining "what is/can be KDE" (which, once more, is not
> > what the visio
On Friday, February 12, 2016 09:15:09 PM Alexander Neundorf wrote:
> On Friday, February 12, 2016 21:00:37 Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> ...
>
> > Maybe what you want is an overarching product vision instead of a
> > community
> > vision, after all?
>
> I think I can answer at least for everybody from
I am currently going through all the feedback again. Thanks for all your
really useful feedback, Ingo. We'll take over a lot of it for the second
draft.
On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 5:00 PM Ingo Klöcker wrote:
> So, how about
> "KDE enables everyone to control their digital life without compromising
>
On Tue, Feb 9, 2016 at 12:33 PM Marco Martin wrote:
> On Tuesday 09 February 2016 12:19:54 Kevin Ottens wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > Sorry, but there was a bait I couldn't resist here. :-)
> >
> > On Tuesday, 9 February 2016 11:55:35 CET Marco Martin wrote:
> > > * "makes simple things easy" not sur
On Sunday 14 February 2016 20:16:57 Lydia Pintscher wrote:
> I am currently going through all the feedback again. Thanks for all
> your really useful feedback, Ingo. We'll take over a lot of it for
> the second draft.
>
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 5:00 PM Ingo Klöcker wrote:
> > So, how about
> > "K
On Sun, Feb 14, 2016 at 9:34 PM Ingo Klöcker wrote:
> On Sunday 14 February 2016 20:16:57 Lydia Pintscher wrote:
> > I am currently going through all the feedback again. Thanks for all
> > your really useful feedback, Ingo. We'll take over a lot of it for
> > the second draft.
> >
> > On Fri, Feb
On Saturday, February 13, 2016 15:35:01 Martin Graesslin wrote:
...
> I can turn that 180 degree around and argue that we are currently too narrow
> minded to get new people in and are not doing great. Hey look all the
> awesome work with Plasma 5 and Wayland. We are doing desktop, desktop,
> deskt
On Sunday, February 14, 2016 11:47:12 PM CET Alexander Neundorf wrote:
> On Saturday, February 13, 2016 15:35:01 Martin Graesslin wrote:
> ...
>
> > I can turn that 180 degree around and argue that we are currently too
> > narrow minded to get new people in and are not doing great. Hey look all
>
On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 1:01 AM, Martin Graesslin wrote:
> That's what we have been doing the last few years, so where are they? Where
> are the devs taking our application to mobile, etc. etc.
KF(5) has barely reached the point where it's usable on mobile
devices. Before it was too painful (I tr
On Monday, February 15, 2016 14:00:45 Alexander Dymo wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 1:01 AM, Martin Graesslin
wrote:
> > That's what we have been doing the last few years, so where are they?
> > Where
> > are the devs taking our application to mobile, etc. etc.
>
> KF(5) has barely reached the
On Monday, February 15, 2016 9:48:18 PM CET Alexander Neundorf wrote:
> On Monday, February 15, 2016 14:00:45 Alexander Dymo wrote:
> > On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 1:01 AM, Martin Graesslin
>
> wrote:
> > > That's what we have been doing the last few years, so where are they?
> > > Where
> > > are th
On Friday, February 12, 2016 12:07:27 PM CET Alexander Dymo wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 1:04 AM, Martin Graesslin
wrote:
> > Why should there be a line?
>
> I've been managing software development organizations since 2008. I
> attest to the importance of drawing a line. There's so much you
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