Re: [Lazarus] *SPAM* Re: Win 10 IOT Core

On 10/20/2015 02:22 PM, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: Silverlight is discontinued. To me this is the death of .NET. Silverlight was the only excuse to call the CIL runtime ".Net Framework". In fact, to me, Silverlight was the only reason to consider ".Net", because deploying a browser-plugin -

Re: [Lazarus] *SPAM* Re: Win 10 IOT Core

Am 22.10.2015 10:18 schrieb "Michael Schnell" : > > On 10/20/2015 02:22 PM, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: >> >> Silverlight is discontinued. >> > To me this is the death of .NET. > > Silverlight was the only excuse to call the CIL runtime ".Net Framework". In fact, to me,

Re: [Lazarus] *SPAM* Re: Win 10 IOT Core

On 10/20/2015 04:36 PM, Paul Breneman wrote: I heard there were patents involved but I don't know anything about those. Happily no software patents in Europe yet :-) , still fighting against TTIP... -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list

Re: [Lazarus] *SPAM* Re: Win 10 IOT Core

On 10/19/2015 05:07 PM, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: Bwah, I don't really think so. You're better off using Linux or some BSD for embedded stuff. Why tie yourself to a company such as Microsoft ? I personally am thinking along the same lines. In fact I personally am not planning to do a

Re: [Lazarus] *SPAM* Re: Win 10 IOT Core

On Tue, 20 Oct 2015, Michael Schnell wrote: On 10/19/2015 04:25 PM, Michael Schnell wrote: The other options statwed in http://ms-iot.github.io/content/en-US/Faqs.htm are XAML and HTML. Yet another option is to stream all functions, properties and events of visual objects via TCPI/IP and

Re: [Lazarus] *SPAM* Re: Win 10 IOT Core

On 10/20/2015 10:31 AM, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: They use extjs 3.3. -> http://dev.sencha.com/deploy/ext-3.3.1/examples/ This indeed looks like a very powerful remote GUI framework. -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list

Re: [Lazarus] *SPAM* Re: Win 10 IOT Core

On 10/20/2015 11:05 AM, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: Except that it is not remote. With the QNAP it is remote. Or am I hit by a misconception of that wording ? -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org

Re: [Lazarus] *SPAM* Re: Win 10 IOT Core

On Tue, 20 Oct 2015, Michael Schnell wrote: On 10/20/2015 09:52 AM, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: That is simply the wrong way of doing things. With browsers or webviews what they are today, you can do all display logic in the browser. The server just needs to provide the suitable data. Of

Re: [Lazarus] *SPAM* Re: Win 10 IOT Core

On 10/20/2015 10:31 AM, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: Remoting a gui is a bad idea, I would not spend time on this approach. When GUI was invented it had been done with UNIX and X11. X11 ran on an X-Terminal. So there was no other GUI than a remote one :-) . Local GUIs got popular with Mac,

Re: [Lazarus] *SPAM* Re: Win 10 IOT Core

On Tue, 20 Oct 2015, Michael Schnell wrote: On 10/20/2015 10:31 AM, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: They use extjs 3.3. -> http://dev.sencha.com/deploy/ext-3.3.1/examples/ This indeed looks like a very powerful remote GUI framework. Except that it is not remote. Michael. --

Re: [Lazarus] *SPAM* Re: Win 10 IOT Core

On 10/20/2015 11:26 AM, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: A browser application (any RIA) such as used in QNA is in fact a client/server application. The client just happens to be a browser. ExtJS is meant to run in the browser. The gui is built from A to Z in the browser. It is there for a

Re: [Lazarus] *SPAM* Re: Win 10 IOT Core

On 10/20/2015 11:51 AM, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: Yes. Any attempt to avoid this is futile. I tried 2 concepts (one of the ExtPascal). You ALWAYS end up writing javascript for particular cases. I do see the problem that likely come up. That obviously is why EXTPascal has been abandoned. And

Re: [Lazarus] *SPAM* Re: Win 10 IOT Core

On 10/20/2015 06:38 AM, Michael Schnell wrote: On 10/20/2015 11:51 AM, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: Yes. Any attempt to avoid this is futile. I tried 2 concepts (one of the ExtPascal). You ALWAYS end up writing javascript for particular cases. I do see the problem that likely come up. That

Re: [Lazarus] *SPAM* Re: Win 10 IOT Core

On Tue, 20 Oct 2015, Michael Schnell wrote: On 10/20/2015 11:26 AM, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: A browser application (any RIA) such as used in QNA is in fact a client/server application. The client just happens to be a browser. ExtJS is meant to run in the browser. The gui is built

Re: [Lazarus] *SPAM* Re: Win 10 IOT Core

On Tue, 20 Oct 2015, Michael Schnell wrote: On 10/20/2015 11:05 AM, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: Except that it is not remote. With the QNAP it is remote. Or am I hit by a misconception of that wording ? I understand it as follows: A browser application (any RIA) such as used in

Re: [Lazarus] *SPAM* Re: Win 10 IOT Core

Am 20.10.2015 14:05 schrieb "Michael Schnell" : >> > I seem to remember that a fpc java script backend had been discussed. Do we know the state of this project ? Not much progress. Maybe this will change with the new binary format and environment Microsoft, Mozilla & Co. are

Re: [Lazarus] *SPAM* Re: Win 10 IOT Core

On Tuesday 20 October 2015 11:26:25 Michael Van Canneyt wrote: > On Tue, 20 Oct 2015, Michael Schnell wrote: > > On 10/20/2015 11:05 AM, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: > >> Except that it is not remote. > > > > > > > > With the QNAP it is remote. Or am I hit by a misconception of that > > wording

Re: [Lazarus] *SPAM* Re: Win 10 IOT Core

On 10/20/2015 11:51 AM, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: What I do endorse is converting Pascal to Javascript directly. Pascal is better suited for large projects: classes, type safety and so on... I seem to remember that a fpc java script backend had been discussed. Do we know the state of this

Re: [Lazarus] *SPAM* Re: Win 10 IOT Core

On Tuesday 20 October 2015 14:11:09 Michael Schnell wrote: > On 10/20/2015 02:00 PM, Martin Schreiber wrote: > > At least in theory. ;-) > > What is the state of the "ifi" project right now ? (AFAIK, you did not > publish it for others to use yet.) In process MSEifi is used in production and

Re: [Lazarus] *SPAM* Re: Win 10 IOT Core

On Tue, 20 Oct 2015, Martin Schreiber wrote: On Tuesday 20 October 2015 14:20:42 Michael Van Canneyt wrote: That is exactly the working principle of MSEifi. The difference is that MSEifi is not implemented by a Javascript environment but by MSEgui components and widgets written in Free

Re: [Lazarus] *SPAM* Re: Win 10 IOT Core

On 10/20/2015 02:29 PM, Martin Schreiber wrote: There is still the pipe demo I made for you, feel free to build some more. :-) Now I remember playing with that some years ago ;-) . As in our company the project had been canceled, I was busy with other things and stopped thinking about that

Re: [Lazarus] *SPAM* Re: Win 10 IOT Core

On 10/20/2015 02:20 PM, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: And that's where the ship sinks for me... Browser plugins are not acceptable as a viable solution. For me even a stand alone program (compilable for Linux Windows and Mac, at best for Android and iOS, too) independent of any browser would be

Re: [Lazarus] *SPAM* Re: Win 10 IOT Core

On 10/20/2015 01:24 PM, Paul Breneman wrote: Yes, this is interesting. I'll repeat what I wrote two years ago: http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/pipermail/lazarus/2013-November/084629.html A *long* time ago I was involved a little with Genotechs in Phoenix and they had a (Delphi) program

Re: [Lazarus] *SPAM* Re: Win 10 IOT Core

On 10/20/2015 02:00 PM, Martin Schreiber wrote: At least in theory. ;-) What is the state of the "ifi" project right now ? (AFAIK, you did not publish it for others to use yet.) IMHO it would be a great building block for fpc users that want to use WIN IOT (or a tiny Linux board, or for

Re: [Lazarus] *SPAM* Re: Win 10 IOT Core

On Tue, 20 Oct 2015, Martin Schreiber wrote: On Tuesday 20 October 2015 11:26:25 Michael Van Canneyt wrote: On Tue, 20 Oct 2015, Michael Schnell wrote: On 10/20/2015 11:05 AM, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: Except that it is not remote. With the QNAP it is remote. Or am I hit by a

Re: [Lazarus] *SPAM* Re: Win 10 IOT Core

On Tue, 20 Oct 2015, Michael Schnell wrote: On 10/20/2015 11:51 AM, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: What I do endorse is converting Pascal to Javascript directly. Pascal is better suited for large projects: classes, type safety and so on... I seem to remember that a fpc java script backend

Re: [Lazarus] *SPAM* Re: Win 10 IOT Core

On Tuesday 20 October 2015 14:20:42 Michael Van Canneyt wrote: > > > > That is exactly the working principle of MSEifi. The difference is that > > MSEifi is not implemented by a Javascript environment but by MSEgui > > components and widgets written in Free Pascal. On client side a MSEifi > >

Re: [Lazarus] *SPAM* Re: Win 10 IOT Core

On 10/20/2015 02:37 PM, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: Absolutely agreed, but in that use case I tend to think that a desktop application is a problem, For me, (if any) the main mission is providing a tool kit for porting existing Delphi programs (here to headless embedded targets). Hence the

Re: [Lazarus] *SPAM* Re: Win 10 IOT Core

On 10/20/2015 02:29 PM, Martin Schreiber wrote: There is still the pipe demo I made for you, feel free to build some more. :-) Maybe you could provide a compiled version (simply two applications) so that the others can see what is possible with that paradigm. -Michael --

Re: [Lazarus] *SPAM* Re: Win 10 IOT Core

On 10/20/2015 09:52 AM, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: That is simply the wrong way of doing things. With browsers or webviews what they are today, you can do all display logic in the browser. The server just needs to provide the suitable data. Of course I do agree that it would be a lot nicer

Re: [Lazarus] *SPAM* Re: Win 10 IOT Core

On 10/20/2015 08:01 AM, Michael Schnell wrote: On 10/20/2015 01:24 PM, Paul Breneman wrote: Yes, this is interesting. I'll repeat what I wrote two years ago: http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/pipermail/lazarus/2013-November/084629.html A *long* time ago I was involved a little with

Re: [Lazarus] *SPAM* Re: Win 10 IOT Core

On Tuesday 20 October 2015 14:49:28 Michael Schnell wrote: > On 10/20/2015 02:29 PM, Martin Schreiber wrote: > > There is still the pipe demo I made for you, feel free to build some > > more. :-) > > Maybe you could provide a compiled version (simply two applications) so > that the others can see

Re: [Lazarus] *SPAM* Re: Win 10 IOT Core

On 10/20/2015 03:43 PM, Martin Schreiber wrote: There *are* compiled versions I made especially for you and which blow up the repository now. ;-) https://gitlab.com/mseuniverse/mseuniverse/tree/master/attic/msedocumenting/mse/trunk/help/tutorials/mseifi/ifipipedemo/bin Great ! Thanks for

Re: [Lazarus] *SPAM* Re: Win 10 IOT Core

On 10/19/2015 02:07 PM, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: How do you know that DirectX is part of IOT ? Only from the message Žilvinas posted: "When running headed the only supported UI is via the UWP UI stacks (XAML, HTML, DirectX" -Michael -- ___

Re: [Lazarus] *SPAM* Re: Win 10 IOT Core

On Mon, 19 Oct 2015, Michael Schnell wrote: On 10/19/2015 01:33 PM, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: We can at least conclude that there is a lot of confusion about what it is and what it is not; But seeing that it is Microsoft, this does not come as a surprise... There are more vendors at

Re: [Lazarus] *SPAM* Re: Win 10 IOT Core

On 10/19/2015 12:51 PM, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: I *seriously* doubt the first part of this statement, because Delphi explicitly does not support the windows runtime on which IOT is based. See my message above in this thread (10/16/2015, 03:13): "I asked my colleague who tested this with

Re: [Lazarus] *SPAM* Re: Win 10 IOT Core

On Mon, 19 Oct 2015, Michael Schnell wrote: On 10/19/2015 12:51 PM, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: I *seriously* doubt the first part of this statement, because Delphi explicitly does not support the windows runtime on which IOT is based. See my message above in this thread (10/16/2015,

Re: [Lazarus] *SPAM* Re: Win 10 IOT Core

On Mon, 19 Oct 2015, Michael Schnell wrote: On 10/19/2015 02:07 PM, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: How do you know that DirectX is part of IOT ? Only from the message Žilvinas posted: "When running headed the only supported UI is via the UWP UI stacks (XAML, HTML, DirectX" That comes

Re: [Lazarus] *SPAM* Re: Win 10 IOT Core

Am 19.10.2015 11:49 schrieb "Michael Schnell" : >> >> To stress this again: We don't support UWP right now as a target in the compiler and RTL. >> > Why does UWP need support by the compiler or the RTL ? AFAIK, GDI does not have such either, but only by the LCL. GDI is merely

Re: [Lazarus] *SPAM* Re: Win 10 IOT Core

On Mon, 19 Oct 2015, Michael Schnell wrote: On 10/19/2015 12:27 PM, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: UWP is a complete separate runtime environment on Windows. It is nothing like the Win32 API. You may not use the Win32 API directly in a UWP application. I did not introduce the term "UWP" here,

Re: [Lazarus] *SPAM* Re: Win 10 IOT Core

On 10/19/2015 01:33 PM, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: We can at least conclude that there is a lot of confusion about what it is and what it is not; But seeing that it is Microsoft, this does not come as a surprise... There are more vendors at work than actual programmers in that company. M$

Re: [Lazarus] *SPAM* Re: Win 10 IOT Core

On 10/19/2015 12:27 PM, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: UWP is a complete separate runtime environment on Windows. It is nothing like the Win32 API. You may not use the Win32 API directly in a UWP application. I did not introduce the term "UWP" here, so I don't know it the non-GUI part of IOT's

Re: [Lazarus] *SPAM* Re: Win 10 IOT Core

On Mon, 19 Oct 2015, Michael Schnell wrote: On 10/19/2015 11:34 AM, Sven Barth wrote: WinAPI vs. UWP is a completely different beast than GDI vs. DirectX whereby the latter is only a very small part of the problem. I see. To stress this again: We don't support UWP right now as a

Re: [Lazarus] *SPAM* Re: Win 10 IOT Core

On 10/19/2015 11:34 AM, Sven Barth wrote: WinAPI vs. UWP is a completely different beast than GDI vs. DirectX whereby the latter is only a very small part of the problem. I see. To stress this again: We don't support UWP right now as a target in the compiler and RTL. Why does UWP need

Re: [Lazarus] *SPAM* Re: Win 10 IOT Core

On 10/19/2015 02:37 PM, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: How do you know that DirectX is part of IOT ? Only from the message Žilvinas posted: "When running headed the only supported UI is via the UWP UI stacks (XAML, HTML, DirectX" That comes from:

Re: [Lazarus] *SPAM* Re: Win 10 IOT Core

The other options statwed in http://ms-iot.github.io/content/en-US/Faqs.htm are XAML and HTML. This obviously aim at a remote GUI. Support for a kind of remote GUI is something that had been discussed here several times. (There once was the EXTPASCAL project, which had died a long time ago).

Re: [Lazarus] *SPAM* Re: Win 10 IOT Core

On Mon, 19 Oct 2015, Michael Schnell wrote: The other options statwed in http://ms-iot.github.io/content/en-US/Faqs.htm are XAML and HTML. This obviously aim at a remote GUI. Support for a kind of remote GUI is something that had been discussed here several times. (There once was the