Tony Finch d...@dotat.at wrote:
Have there really been that many? Any refs to ones other than Markus's and
Google's?
There is also my UTR scheme:
http://ifctfvax.Harhan.ORG/timekeeping/draft-utrspec.txt
http://ifctfvax.Harhan.ORG/timekeeping/draft-utrdef.txt
MS
Mark Calabretta mcala...@atnf.csiro.au wrote:
In the former, on reaching 60, the second hand would stay there for 2
seconds thus making it impossible to track time during a leap second.
In the latter, the second hand would move continuously past 60 to 01
second and immediately flick back to
Tom Van Baak t...@leapsecond.com wrote:
Except it doesn't work for binary systems. 32.768 Hz watches
would prefer steps of 1/1024 s. UTS was a fine idea until it
was so overly specified. Since you are already dealing with
timekeepers that do not care so much about sub-second
accuracy a
Keith Winstein kei...@mit.edu wrote:
Hmm, in practice I think the plan to simply fail with an error is
going to be a non-starter. Plenty of applications need to record dates
more than six months in the future; e.g. in a calendar program, the
user will want to schedule a meeting for August 1,
Steve Allen s...@ucolick.org wrote:
TAI can be derived from UTC, GPS and other broadcast timescales, so
availability is fine.
Indications have been that BIPM will disagree violently with that
statement.
And what's wrong with simply ignoring them after telling them to STFU?
MS
Warner Losh i...@bsdimp.com wrote:
The ITU standard is the standard for radio broadcast time. That's why
everybody broadcasts UTC (+/- some fixed offset) today. To conform with
international standards, they would broadcast the new timescale.
But how are you going to enforce it? Suppose
Rob Seaman sea...@noao.edu wrote:
Obviously we would be forced to adapt. We can't all be a one-man
micronation like Michael :-) More power to him, but that isn't a
coordinated plan either.
My one-man micronation is connected to the Internet with its own
public, static, world-reachable IPv4
Ian Batten i...@batten.eu.org wrote:
There are, for instance, ongoing Y2K-related issues.
[Citation Needed]
I am continuing to deal with Y2K fallout issues in 4.3BSD-Quasijarus
to the present day, as it becomes apparent to me that my initial fixes
made just before the Y2K moment aren't good
Tony Finch d...@dotat.at wrote:
There should be no fragmentation of the underlying
timescale, and there will continue to be a consensus realization of it.
How sure are you of the last part? How sure are you that some
countries won't consider the ITU's UTC redefinition act to be
fraudulent and
Ian Batten i...@batten.eu.org wrote:
your watch is set to civil time;
Because the word you and your when posted on a public mailing list
effectively imply everyone on the list, I can easy prove that your
statement is false: *my* watch is set to whatever time *I* choose,
which is *not*
Nero Imhard n...@pipe.nl wrote:
Fundamentally changing the semantics of a time scale while retaining the
name WILL be a future source of confusion. This can be prevented by
properly changing over legal time to a uniform time scale (which seems to
be the requirement).
An essential feature of
Tony Finch d...@dotat.at wrote:
GMT was discontinued decades ago and has not had a coherent meaning for
even longer.
For me GMT has a very simple meaning: it basically means the exact
timescale doesn't matter, it can be anything as long as it comes from
someone like Rob Seaman and NOT from
mike cook michael.c...@sfr.fr wrote:
I think an RFC for an NTP extension to support a rubbery time scale =
will be required so that all who wish to keep something approaching UT1 =
as civil time can do so.
But are you sure that NTP would be the right protocol? The first and
most immediate
Daniel R. Tobias d...@tobias.name wrote:
World time zone maps generally show a series of perfectly regular
time zones divided at the appropriate meridians through the oceans
wherever there aren't any nations that set their time otherwise for
political reasons.
Yup, and these ocean time
=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ask_Bj=F8rn_Hansen?= a...@develooper.com wrote:
In all the discussions here, I still haven't seen any examples of things th=
at'll break that's not related to tracking things in the sky.
LEGAL things would break. What the people like you fail to grok is
that some of us are
Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote:
If and when they feel the need, I'm sure they will.
In 2600 AD, if I remember the prognosis ?
For those countries/micronations who choose to maintain their legal
time within 0.1 s of some good-faith form of Mean Solar Time, it will
be much much
Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote:
A separate list, where people who are interested can subscribe.
Rob Seaman sea...@noao.edu wrote:
I agree.
OK, I accept this consensus then. However, I have a directed question
to TVB, the owner of the leapsecond.com and leapsecond.org domains:
Hello leap second debaters,
As I have stated here many times previously, I am utterly disgusted by
what the ITU is considering doing to UTC. As I have also stated here
many times previously, I will not sit back and allow the computer
systems under my care to be at the mercy of whatever the ITU
Daniel R. Tobias d...@tobias.name wrote:
You could have multiple types of seconds, like you have troy and
avoirdupois ounces, and U.S. and imperial gallons.
Yes, like I've been advocating all along.
NASA is already using a Martian second, based on subdividing the
solar day of Mars, that
Warner Losh i...@bsdimp.com wrote:
Just for the record. I have no minions, armed or otherwise.
Yes you do: they are called sheriffs/cops/etc, and are unfortunately
present in almost every country on Earth with the possible exception of
small countries like the Principality of Sealand which to
Stephen Colebourne scolebou...@joda.org wrote:
If TAI claims a trademark or similar, then I will have to rename or
clarify. BIPM has not been consulted.
The term I use is TAPF: Temps Atomique Pedant-Free. TAPF is officially
defined by its defining authority (me) to be identical with TAI in
ashtongj ashto...@comcast.net wrote:
If I point a gun at the police when they show
up to assist the inspectors, the police will kill me.
And what if your army is stronger than the police and you kill them,
not the other way around?
I have heard that the average ratio in USA is approximately
Finkleman, Dave dfinkle...@agi.com wrote:
We are trying to do what several have suggested, prepare for what might
be inevitable. Naming ambiguity is a central issue.
I'm going to call my timescale UTR. The 'R' stands for rebellious,
revolutionary or rubber seconds.
MS
Nero Imhard n...@pipe.nl wrote:
leap seconds being a vast improvement over rubber seconds
That is your opinion (and apparently that of the other technocrats), but
I totally disagree. I want mean solar time, but I want it to be a real
number with all the standard mathematical properties of a
Zefram zef...@fysh.org wrote:
Time scales are not easily killed off. The general concept of a time
scale that uses leap seconds to coordinate TAI and UT obviously has
its advantages, and some users would presumably find it convenient to
continue to have such a time scale, even if they're no
Warner Losh i...@bsdimp.com wrote:
2010 is a radically different world than 1970 when
leap seconds were invented.
Then clearly the right solution is to abolish and ban all technology
invented after December 31, 1979!
MS
P.S. This E-mail message has been composed and sent using 1979
Nero Imhard n...@pipe.nl wrote:
I had already mentioned the Bernhardt precision sundial on this list. Its
precision is such that one or more adjustments would likely be necessary
during the lifetime of the sundial. So, given the sword of Damocles
hanging over UTC's head, I guess the smart
Paul Sheer p...@2038bug.com wrote:
We can *never* go back once this bound grows.
Never say never: if I came to power as a dictator in some 3rd world
country, I would have absolutely no problem with issuing an edict to the
entire population to adjust their clocks by, say, 30.4851122 seconds at
a
Tony Finch d...@dotat.at wrote:
Oh, do tell, where will you get your GMT reference from?
If I have trouble figuring it out myself, I'll just E-mail Rob Seaman
and ask him what time it is. Given that his views on the subject as
expressed on this list are much closer to mine than, say, PHK's, I
p...@2038bug.com wrote:
Nobody cares here that solar time and civil time
are 43 minutes off.
*I* care
I do too!
but I'm not important - I'm just one person
There are TWO of us now!
many people might care and many people are not getting to make
the decision because the decision is
Tony Finch d...@dotat.at wrote:
No. You do not run any systems synced to solar GMT. No-one does.
I very soon will, as soon as I get my rubber time generator working.
MS,
who wants to live his life on rubber time (rubber seconds).
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Rob Seaman sea...@noao.edu wrote:
If you're looking for an Arizona-based standard, surely Sedona is the
benchmark :-)
http://www.lovesedona.com/01.htm
Yup, been there once for a UFO/spiritual conference. Very beautiful
indeed.
MS
___
LEAPSECS
Hello all,
This discussion about the meaning of UNIX and POSIX time_t in terms of
UTC/TAI/whatnot that has just moved here from the time-nuts list has
pushed some of my religious hot buttons, so I feel the rhetorical
imperative to state my position.
But first a disclaimer: I absolutely do not
M. Warner Losh i...@bsdimp.com wrote:
Almost all the posix mistakes are
relegated to tty handling :).
That's another major reason why I hate POSIX. I will never adopt termios
and I'm very proud to have the original sgtty in 4.3BSD-Quasijarus instead!
MS
M. Warner Losh i...@bsdimp.com wrote:
Is that an adjusted or unadjusted clock? :)
Adjusted for what?
MS
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John Hein jh...@timing.com wrote:
By the way, that's a lower case 'c' in 'calendar'.
Yes, thank you for catching my mistake; the correct URL is:
http://ivan.Harhan.ORG/RT/calendar/spec.txt
It was a human mistake on my part, I had typed the URL in from memory
without checking it.
Let me
Poul-Henning Kamp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This is the point where the POSIX people shot us in the feet by
ignoring leap-seconds.
Why care about POSIX at all? Why not use a non-POSIX UNIX system then?
The time_t type, contains the number of SI seconds since 1970-01-01
00:00:00 UTC
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