[OSM-legal-talk] Apologies for misleading munin graphs

2011-12-21 Thread Frederik Ramm
Hi, as you probably know I'm running statistics on the raw count of objects processed by the OSMI view and making Munin graphs of them here: http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/munin.html I'm afraid that there has been an error in some of the graphs (example graph with problem shown here http

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

2011-12-21 Thread mike
Quoting Ed Avis : writes: 2) good faith - are we making a reasonable effort to remove the IP of folks who have not given us permission to continue? I certainly agree with Ed that we should treat ex-contributors no differently to any IP owner ... but feel we are already doing that in this and o

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

2011-12-21 Thread mike
Quoting Ed Avis : writes: 2) good faith - are we making a reasonable effort to remove the IP of folks who have not given us permission to continue? I certainly agree with Ed that we should treat ex-contributors no differently to any IP owner ... but feel we are already doing that in this and o

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

2011-12-21 Thread Ed Avis
writes: >2) good faith - are we making a reasonable effort to remove the IP of >folks who have not given us permission to continue? I certainly agree >with Ed that we should treat ex-contributors no differently to any IP >owner ... but feel we are already doing that in this and other >co

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

2011-12-21 Thread Ed Avis
Sorry, I appreciate your taking the time to go through the arguments on this but I think I have said all I have to say about node positions. I'll let others decide whether what I wrote makes sense. -- Ed Avis ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@o

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

2011-12-21 Thread mike
Quoting Ed Avis : Simon Poole writes: - mapper A (who has agreed to the CTs) creates a way - mapper B (who has not agreed) adjusts the way's geometry, creating some new nodes - mapper C (who has agreed) adjusts the position of those nodes In this case the third edit would have

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

2011-12-21 Thread Simon Poole
Am 21.12.2011 14:50, schrieb Ed Avis: Simon Poole writes: In general we have assumed that for example tracing from aerial imagery and similar sources does not create a derived work in which the creator of the imagery has rights (not that I necessarily agree with that). The requirement has alwa

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

2011-12-21 Thread Ed Avis
Simon Poole writes: >>- mapper A (who has agreed to the CTs) creates a way >>- mapper B (who has not agreed) adjusts the way's geometry, creating >> some new nodes >>- mapper C (who has agreed) adjusts the position of those nodes >> >>In this case the third edit would have to be

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

2011-12-21 Thread Simon Poole
Am 21.12.2011 14:15, schrieb Ed Avis: Simon Poole writes: If you take an existing tainted way and move it they way is still going to go, so what is your point again? Are we not talking about the following situation: - mapper A (who has agreed to the CTs) creates a way - mapper B (who

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

2011-12-21 Thread Ed Avis
Simon Poole writes: >If you take an existing tainted way and move it they way is still going >to go, so what is your point again? Are we not talking about the following situation: - mapper A (who has agreed to the CTs) creates a way - mapper B (who has not agreed) adjusts the way's geome

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

2011-12-21 Thread Simon Poole
Am 21.12.2011 13:34, schrieb Ed Avis: Simon Poole writes: If somebody is improving the geometry of a way because he is interpolating from the available information (may that be GPS traces of other ways) then he is doing exactly that, That is exactly it: "improving" the geometry of a way. Not

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

2011-12-21 Thread andrzej zaborowski
On 21 December 2011 12:43, Ed Avis wrote: > andrzej zaborowski writes: >>>- is a mapper declaration of odbl=clean interesting and helpful in >>>reconciling the data base? >> >>Definitely, and I think odbl=no would also be useful to mark objects >>that are known to come from ODbL-incompatible sour

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

2011-12-21 Thread Ed Avis
Simon Poole writes: >If somebody is improving the geometry of a way because he is >interpolating from the available information (may that be GPS traces of >other ways) then he is doing exactly that, That is exactly it: "improving" the geometry of a way. Not replacing it. If you take an existi

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

2011-12-21 Thread Simon Poole
Please don't confuse the matter by treating tagged and untagged notes the same. If somebody is improving the geometry of a way because he is interpolating from the available information (may that be GPS traces of other ways) then he is doing exactly that, just because he is reusing an exist

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

2011-12-21 Thread Ed Avis
Richard Weait writes: >We consider that the creation of an >object and its id to be a system action  rather than individual >creative contribution. However, 'the creation of an object and its id' never occurs by itself. At a minimum, you create an object with id and lat/lon, and that location da

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

2011-12-21 Thread Ed Avis
A common way to adjust a node position is to move it halfway between the old one and the new one. For example, if there is already a way on the map traced from GPS but you have a new GPS trace for it which is a bit different, it would be unwise to adjust it to exactly fit your new trace. But you

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

2011-12-21 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2011/12/21 ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen : > I think it's relevant that node changes as suggested > should involve stand alone nodes only (such as POI). > Once they are part of a structure of say a building or a road, water > or any area, the nodes should be considered a "composition

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

2011-12-21 Thread Ed Avis
andrzej zaborowski writes: >>- is a mapper declaration of odbl=clean interesting and helpful in >>reconciling the data base? > >Definitely, and I think odbl=no would also be useful to mark objects >that are known to come from ODbL-incompatible sources but whose >contributors accepted Contributor

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

2011-12-21 Thread Ed Avis
I think the test must be the same as for any other data which OSMF does not have permission to use. If a mapper added a node by copying from Google Maps, but then another mapper moved it to a different position using a permitted data source, is it okay to keep that node in the database? -- Ed Av

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

2011-12-21 Thread andrzej zaborowski
On 20 December 2011 21:27, Richard Weait wrote: > Dear All, > > LWG would like feedback on a couple of items relating to cleaning > tainted data as we all prepare for the data base transition. > > Draft minutes are here. > > https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1ZIQSl0xXpUFbqTeknz61BYgfCINDTzlA

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

2011-12-21 Thread ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen
I think it's relevant that node changes as suggested should involve stand alone nodes only (such as POI). Once they are part of a structure of say a building or a road, water or any area, the nodes should be considered a "composition" rather then 4 nodes. While the underlying structure is a geogr