https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #133 from Heiko Tietze ---
I appreciate the passionate discussion. It shows how much interest and
dedication you _all_ have in the project.
To summarize, we more or less agree on the need to finalize the Notebookbar.
Stuart's
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
Thomas Lendo changed:
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--- Comment #132 from Eyal Rozenberg ---
(In reply to Rafael Lima from comment #131)
> TBH my main goal in joining this discussion is to raise awareness about the
> problems we have in the Tabbed UI, which is possibly the second most popu
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #131 from Rafael Lima ---
(In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #115)
> If you want to make this argument, you need to address the objections of
> those of us who are against it. Which you, so far, have not.
TBH my main go
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #130 from PeeWee ---
It has been interesting reading the comments about updating the user interface,
but I believe that there have to be a few corrections first to the present user
interfaces that are available. This would mak
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #129 from V Stuart Foote ---
I am primarily a Windows user, and I do not (except for QA and UX feedback) use
the TABBED UI.
Compared to fully-functional Standard UI--Menu, Toolbar & Dialog supplemented
with the Sidebar--the G
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #128 from Pedro ---
I don't care about engaging in pointless discussions.
I totally approve of (In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #127)
> (In reply to Pedro from comment #126)
> > Why should we seek new users?
>
> You
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #127 from Eyal Rozenberg ---
(In reply to Pedro from comment #126)
> Why should we seek new users?
You're using a straw man argument there. Mike did not suggest LO shouldn't seek
new users.
> New users ... won't stick aroun
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #126 from Pedro ---
(In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #123)
> Reading through the heated discussion, I see the recurring motive in the
> proponents of the change: "we must attract new users".
>
> I see why me personally
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #125 from Telesto ---
(In reply to Pedro from comment #121)
> (In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #110)
> You are just inflating the list of required resources to suit your view of
> the discussion.
> Because quite frankl
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #124 from Eyal Rozenberg ---
(In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #123)
I think you're being somewhat unfair to the proponents of tabbed UI by default.
They seem to be coalescing towards an "invest in the tabbed UI to make
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #123 from Mike Kaganski ---
Reading through the heated discussion, I see the recurring motive in the
proponents of the change: "we must attract new users".
I see why me personally could be motivated by that: I work for a comm
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #122 from Pedro ---
(In reply to Rafael Lima from comment #106)
> HOWEVER, being a very frequent user of the Tabbed UI I have to recognize it
> has some serious limitations that make it unfit to be the default option.
> I'll
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #121 from Pedro ---
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #110)
> (In reply to Telesto from comment #109)
> > (In reply to John Mills from comment #107)
>
> > So question is about committing to the Tabbed UI as the way to
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #120 from Pedro ---
(In reply to Luke Kendall from comment #117)
> Although my suggestion (comment 35) was largely ignored, or misunderstood,
> I'll reiterate it.
>
> If you make the UI choice a very visible indicator that ca
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #119 from Pedro ---
(In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #103)
> (In reply to Pedro from comment #102)
> > I assume you haven't used other office suites in the past 15 years, because
> > since then every LibreOffice altern
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #118 from PeeWee ---
(In reply to Luke Kendall from comment #117)
> Although my suggestion (comment 35) was largely ignored, or misunderstood,
> I'll reiterate it.
>
> If you make the UI choice a very visible indicator that c
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #117 from Luke Kendall ---
Although my suggestion (comment 35) was largely ignored, or misunderstood, I'll
reiterate it.
If you make the UI choice a very visible indicator that can be used to switch
to a different UI style, O
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #116 from John Mills ---
(In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #115)
> (In reply to Rafael Lima from comment #112)
> > I agree with this point of view. Making the Tabbed UI should be a goal for
> > to be achieved within 1 o
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #115 from Eyal Rozenberg ---
(In reply to Rafael Lima from comment #112)
> I agree with this point of view. Making the Tabbed UI should be a goal for
> to be achieved within 1 or 2 years. If we start prioritizing it today, may
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #114 from John Mills ---
(In reply to Buovjaga from comment #113)
> (In reply to Rafael Lima from comment #112)
> > Maybe we could bring this issue to the ESC so that future grants can be
> > proposed to address Tabbed UI-rela
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #113 from Buovjaga ---
(In reply to Rafael Lima from comment #112)
> Maybe we could bring this issue to the ESC so that future grants can be
> proposed to address Tabbed UI-related bugs and enhancements.
We could hire an in-h
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #112 from Rafael Lima ---
(In reply to Telesto from comment #109)
> (In reply to John Mills from comment #107)
> So at this point there is a difference between bug title and the actual
> desire.
> It's not about the Tabbed UI
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #111 from V Stuart Foote ---
> ... implementing a tabbed UI.
Beyond what we have now with the GLADE based MUFFIN 'Tabbed UI', which clearly
is not sufficient to being made the default UI.
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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #110 from V Stuart Foote ---
(In reply to Telesto from comment #109)
> (In reply to John Mills from comment #107)
> So question is about committing to the Tabbed UI as the way to go. And
> allocating resources to it.
"... al
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #109 from Telesto ---
(In reply to John Mills from comment #107)
So at this point there is a difference between bug title and the actual desire.
It's not about the Tabbed UI being the default today or tomorrow, but about
some
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #108 from John Mills ---
This part should have read :
'This is important, if you were looking 5 to 10 years in to the future'
Not 50 to 10.
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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #107 from John Mills ---
(In reply to Rafael Lima from comment #106)
Hi Rafael, thanks for taking the time to write such a reasoned response from
your perspective, this is entirely the type of feedback that we need, examining
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #106 from Rafael Lima ---
Hi all! I have been using LibreOffice every day for a couple of years to do all
my work and I would like to provide some insights on this issue.
At first glance, I would be totally in favor of switch
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #105 from PeeWee ---
(In reply to John Mills from comment #104)
iWorks on a Mac no longer exists. The three main components, Pages, Numbers,
and Keynote, are now individual software packages. Depending on where you live
in the
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #104 from John Mills ---
(In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #103)
> (In reply to Pedro from comment #102)
>
> * KOffice - menus & toolbars (abandoned in 2015 but you said past 15 years)
DEAD
> * AbiWord - menus & toolb
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #103 from Eyal Rozenberg ---
(In reply to Pedro from comment #102)
> I assume you haven't used other office suites in the past 15 years, because
> since then every LibreOffice alternative uses a tabbed UI similar to the
> Ribb
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #102 from Pedro ---
(In reply to PeeWee from comment #95)
> Being a serious user of LibreOffice, I believe that changing the default UI
> from Standard to Notebookbar would be detrimental to users’ experience of a
> very good
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #101 from Buovjaga ---
Design task created for making the style story better: bug 149230. From now on
I will point all new designers to that task until we hit gold.
(In reply to PeeWee from comment #100)
> Another problem I h
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
Buovjaga changed:
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--- Comment #100 from PeeWee ---
Another problem I have found as I do want to test this UI.
The Notebook Bar UI is already available as a UI in LibreOffice, BUT it is
called Tabbed UI.
Can this be corrected so that users can easily iden
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #99 from Mike Kaganski ---
(In reply to Buovjaga from comment #97)
Definitely.
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--- Comment #98 from PeeWee ---
If the default UI is going to be changed, th4en could the spelling be correct.
Notebookbar is definitely incorrect.
Please change to Notebook Bar to make the UI look more professional.
Regards
PeeWee
-
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
Buovjaga changed:
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CC||ilmari.lauhakangas@libreoff
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #96 from John Mills ---
(In reply to PeeWee from comment #95)
> The Standard UI is very similar to other
> office software packages, so a new user to LibreOffice would have no problem
> in getting to grips with LibreOffice.
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #95 from PeeWee ---
Being a serious user of LibreOffice, I believe that changing the default UI
from Standard to Notebookbar would be detrimental to users’ experience of a
very good office software package. The Standard UI is
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
Heiko Tietze changed:
What|Removed |Added
See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #94 from Eyal Rozenberg ---
(In reply to John Mills from comment #93)
> There is very little doubt that having a 'ribbon' is a strategic benefit for
> LibreOffice.
John, why are you trying to present your position as the obje
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #93 from John Mills ---
(In reply to Justin L from comment #91)
> Created attachment 180077 [details]
> defaultToRibbonUI.oxt: extension that sets the default UI to notebookbar
>
> Like all of my extension configurations, thi
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #92 from Eyal Rozenberg ---
(In reply to Justin L from comment #90)
> If TDF considers the ribbon UI to be a strategic benefit
I would actually be interested in links to minutes of such discussions in the
past (in the ESC? De
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #91 from Justin L ---
Created attachment 180077
--> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=180077&action=edit
defaultToRibbonUI.oxt: extension that sets the default UI to notebookbar
Like all of my extension
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #90 from Justin L ---
If TDF considers the ribbon UI to be a strategic benefit they should:
1.) Have a meta bug that is collecting issues about it. (I assume one doesn't
exist since it isn't attached to this issue)
2.) Then ke
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #89 from Heiko Tietze ---
Tagged the clear opinions about making the Tabbed UI the default with minus (9,
would include myself here but didn't do so as OP) and plus (4). Considering
also some plus from Twitter, comment 72). Th
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #88 from V Stuart Foote ---
(In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #85)
Comment 3, OK--but I'd think my concers in comment 33 (regards bug 109425 and
bug 107343) or in comment 53 (illusion of any similarity between NB Glade
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #87 from Justin L ---
Before defaulting to the notebookbar as a default (which I am NOT in favour
of), it would be rather wise to clean up things like
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/NotebookBar which state "NO
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #86 from Mike Kaganski ---
I want to support the really crucial point raised by ajlittoz in comment #81.
Regardless of the UI *technology* that would be the default, the discussion
here drives us in a completely wrong directio
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #85 from Mike Kaganski ---
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from bug 148967 comment #35)
> the team facilitates the work around LibreOffice. The
> ESC usually gives favorable consideration to my recommendations, which I
> take from u
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #84 from John Mills ---
Since it's been a year since any substantial comment to this request do we have
any further feedback for this design decision? Is Collabora Office defaulting
to the notebook bar tabbed interface by defa
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
Heiko Tietze changed:
What|Removed |Added
CC||psaut...@gmail.com
--- Comment #8
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #82 from John Mills ---
(In reply to ajlittoz from comment #81)
> Very long, didn't read the whole thread. My opinion may then be biased.
>
> I'm afraid that all this discussion about the "ideal" UI to be elected as
> the def
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #81 from ajlittoz ---
Very long, didn't read the whole thread. My opinion may then be biased.
I'm afraid that all this discussion about the "ideal" UI to be elected as the
default one misses the real point.
UI is not the tar
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #80 from John Mills ---
(In reply to Telesto from comment #77)
> I think this bug can be closed as fixed. We have opted for a dialog
> presented at first launch. So comment 73 doesn't add much value, IMHO.
>
> Bug 137931 and
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #79 from andreas_k ---
goals has to be defined by special online-meetings where all the stakeholders
(develop, design, documentation, help, translation, trainees, ...) can give
there feedback.
I already wrote meetings you nee
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #78 from andreas_k ---
For me the decission is realy simple.
There is NO developer (since forever) how do/will support Notebookbar, so how
could we change to it by default?
The Notebookbar was a very good GSOC project and I
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
Telesto changed:
What|Removed |Added
See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
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--- Comment #76 from John Mills ---
@ Eyal Rozenberg
Thank you furthering the discussion, you bring a valid perspective and it is
important that all sides in the 'debate' are highlighted.
The discussion around changing the default User
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #75 from Eyal Rozenberg ---
(Collection of comments resulting from catching up on the discussion; my main
point is in comment #73 above.)
* I've just read the Reddit thread mentioned earlier. There was about one
person who sa
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #74 from andreas_k ---
I think we can close this bug report.
There will be an information at the Tip of the day dialog where you can go to
the dialog picker (or not whatever user prefer)
This isn't that much in your face, bu
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #73 from Eyal Rozenberg ---
This is the first time I've been made aware of this issue page; too bad more
QA/power users haven't been in on the discussion.
I would like to strongly disagree with the suggestion of making a ribb
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #72 from Mike Saunders ---
Just noting that I tweeted about the NotebookBar here:
https://twitter.com/libreoffice/status/1322497314095833089
Check out the replies - some feedback and requests to make it the default.
--
You
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
andreas_k changed:
What|Removed |Added
CC||kain...@gmail.com
--- Comment #71 fr
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
Bug 135501 depends on bug 117463, which changed state.
Bug 117463 Summary: Create a Dialog that shows up on first boot of
Writer/Calc/Impress for the user to pick its default UI
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=117463
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #70 from John Mills ---
Hello all,
I don't know if this has any bearing on the desktop client for LibreOffice but
it appears that Collabora will be moving their online edition to use the tabbed
interface by default starting a
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
--- Comment #69 from Telesto ---
I agree with the summary. Only want to add that if Tabbed variant gets more
prominent (or default, or picker), it should be made sure they quality matches
toolbar settings more or less (so including access
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501
V Stuart Foote changed:
What|Removed |Added
Summary|Change the default UI |Change the default UI (see
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