Re: [License-discuss] notes on a systematic approach to "popular" licenses

2017-04-09 Thread Luis Villa
ly flawed", would be great to get some feedback on how/why it's > > flawed so I can improve it? > > > > System level package managers are in the pipeline for the end of the > year, > > but there are so fewer packages there that I can't see it moving the > needle &g

Re: [License-discuss] notes on a systematic approach to "popular" licenses

2017-04-09 Thread Philippe Ombredanne
ider this https://enterprise.dejacode.com/licenses/ Every OSI licenses (and more) conditions have been carefully tagged as seen here: https://enterprise.dejacode.com/licenses/Demo/apache-2.0/#license-conditions (disclosure: this is a product of my company) -- Cordially Phil

Re: [License-discuss] notes on a systematic approach to "popular" licenses

2017-04-09 Thread Philippe Ombredanne
:54 AM, Andrew Nesbitt <and...@libraries.io> wrote: > "inevitably flawed", would be great to get some feedback on how/why it's > flawed so I can improve it? > > System level package managers are in the pipeline for the end of the year, > but there are so fewer pack

Re: [License-discuss] notes on a systematic approach to "popular" licenses

2017-04-07 Thread Smith, McCoy
project – which is what I think Larry was suggesting might be helpful). From: License-discuss [mailto:license-discuss-boun...@opensource.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Sean Morrison Sent: Friday, April 07, 2017 11:32 AM To: license-discuss@opensource.org Subject: Re: [License-discuss] notes

Re: [License-discuss] notes on a systematic approach to "popular" licenses

2017-04-07 Thread John Cowan
ses/tags/OSI-Approved > For people who like opinionated wizards, there's also mine, currently hosted at <http://vrici.lojban.org/~cowan/floss/>. It asks you questions about what you want your license to do, and then steers you to the 3-clause BSD, the Apache 2.0, the GPL 2.0, or the LGPL 2.

Re: [License-discuss] notes on a systematic approach to "popular" licenses

2017-04-07 Thread Christopher Sean Morrison
gs/OSI-Approved> Cheers! Sean ___________ License-discuss mailing list License-discuss@opensource.org https://lists.opensource.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/license-discuss

Re: [License-discuss] notes on a systematic approach to "popular" licenses

2017-04-07 Thread Smith, McCoy
What Larry is describing is similar to a project that at one point was being put together in part by Professor Urban back when she was at USC law: A licensing wizard for use in selecting an open source license from the existing OSI list. That project is described in the licensing

Re: [License-discuss] notes on a systematic approach to "popular" licenses

2017-04-06 Thread Philippe Ombredanne
cross ref with debsources. -- Cordially Philippe Ombredanne ___ License-discuss mailing list License-discuss@opensource.org https://lists.opensource.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/license-discuss

Re: [License-discuss] notes on a systematic approach to "popular" licenses

2017-04-06 Thread Lawrence Rosen
Richard Fontana wrote: > Interesting but at first glance the data seems too unreliable to be of any > use. I started checking the identified projects under the so-called Clear BSD > license (the FSF-free, never-OSI-submitted BSD variant that explicitly > excludes patent licenses)

Re: [License-discuss] notes on a systematic approach to "popular" licenses

2017-04-06 Thread Richard Fontana
Interesting but at first glance the data seems too unreliable to be of any use. I started checking the identified projects under the so-called Clear BSD license (the FSF-free, never-OSI-submitted BSD variant that explicitly excludes patent licenses) and the ones I looked at were all spurious

Re: [License-discuss] notes on a systematic approach to "popular" licenses

2017-04-06 Thread Luis Villa
all- > I promised some board members a summary of my investigation in '12-'13 > into updating, supplementing, or replacing the "popular licenses" list. > Here goes. > > > *tl;dr* > I think OSI should have an data-driven short license list with a > replicabl

[License-discuss] OpenSSL License Change

2017-03-28 Thread Michael Dexter
Hello all, I did a quick review of the recent list traffic and did not find any mention of the OpenSSL license change: https://www.openssl.org/blog/blog/2017/03/22/license/ In short, the appear to be attempting a clean-up of their license which currently is largely permissive but includes

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: patent rights and the OSD

2017-03-28 Thread Tzeng, Nigel H.
universities saw this as a potential issue I would imagine it is worse for the USG. Regards, Nigel From: Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US) <cem.f.karan@mail.mil<mailto:cem.f.karan@mail.mil>> Date: Tuesday, Mar 28, 2017, 10:24 AM To: license-discuss@opensource.org <

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: patent rights and the OSD

2017-03-28 Thread Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US)
of facts above, except that NASA has entered into an exclusive license agreement. NASA’s licensee finds out that ARL has been distributing code covered by the NASA patent that they have exclusive rights to. Does the licensee have a “breach of contract” action it can bring against the government? Does

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: patent rights and the OSD

2017-03-20 Thread Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US)
nal Message- > From: License-discuss [mailto:license-discuss-boun...@opensource.org] On > Behalf Of Tzeng, Nigel H. > Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2017 7:43 AM > To: license-discuss@opensource.org; lro...@rosenlaw.com > Subject: Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: patent rights an

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: patent rights and the OSD

2017-03-20 Thread Christopher Sean Morrison
interest in filing. Perhaps not legal, but I don’t think it's unethical to give away something someone else created if your work was created entirely independently without knowledge of them or their patent status. Cheers! Sean _______ License-discuss mai

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) Version 0.4.1

2017-03-20 Thread Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US)
> -Original Message- > From: License-discuss [mailto:license-discuss-boun...@opensource.org] On > Behalf Of John Cowan > Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 10:05 AM > To: license-discuss@opensource.org > Subject: Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: Possible alternati

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) Version 0.4.1

2017-03-20 Thread John Cowan
Johnston _______ License-discuss mailing list License-discuss@opensource.org https://lists.opensource.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/license-discuss

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) Version 0.4.1

2017-03-20 Thread Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US)
OK, thank you, I'll contact them and see what they think. Thanks, Cem Karan > -Original Message- > From: License-discuss [mailto:license-discuss-boun...@opensource.org] On > Behalf Of Marc Jones > Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 4:31 PM > To: license-discuss@opensource.or

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: patent rights and the OSD

2017-03-19 Thread Tzeng, Nigel H.
else's, etc. From: Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US) <cem.f.karan@mail.mil<mailto:cem.f.karan@mail.mil>> Date: Sunday, Mar 19, 2017, 6:42 AM To: lro...@rosenlaw.com <lro...@rosenlaw.com<mailto:lro...@rosenlaw.com>>, license-discuss@opensource.org <lic

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) Version 0.4.1

2017-03-17 Thread Lawrence Rosen
Richard Fontana wrote: > ... which would be more consistent with the ARL lawyers' apparent belief that > some horrible disaster will occur if they put US published code under a > copyright license. :) Richard, what horrible disaster will come if OSI approves CC0 as an open source

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) Version 0.4.1

2017-03-17 Thread Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US)
salute and obey. And until someone we CAN salute and obey gives us the OK, we have to follow the more conservative approach). Thanks, Cem Karan > -Original Message- > From: License-discuss [mailto:license-discuss-boun...@opensource.org] On > Behalf Of Richard Fontana > Sent: F

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) Version 0.4.1

2017-03-17 Thread Richard Fontana
a copyright license. :) On Fri, Mar 17, 2017, at 04:47 PM, Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US) wrote: > That was what I was afraid of. OK, in that case I'll make the > recommendation that ARL does what I was outlining before, and hope that > CC0 will one day be considered Open Sourc

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) Version 0.4.1

2017-03-17 Thread Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US)
You're probably right. I don't **think** that there are any other journals that will turn down code if it doesn't come with an OSI-approved license; can anyone think of one? Thanks, Cem Karan > -Original Message- > From: License-discuss [mailto:license-discuss-boun...@opensour

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) Version 0.4.1

2017-03-17 Thread Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US)
That was what I was afraid of. OK, in that case I'll make the recommendation that ARL does what I was outlining before, and hope that CC0 will one day be considered Open Source as well. Thanks, Cem Karan > -Original Message- > From: License-discuss [mailto:license-discus

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) Version 0.4.1

2017-03-17 Thread Tzeng, Nigel H.
Other than JOSS I still don’t see how it makes a big difference for the Government. And the ability to publish in JOSS seems like a rather secondary consideration…and I say that as a software developer in an academic environment… On 3/17/17, 8:32 AM, "License-discuss on behalf of Karan,

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) Version 0.4.1

2017-03-17 Thread Richard Fontana
eeting the OSD definitions though. I'd still like to convince OSI that > the route I outlined earlier should be considered to be Open Source; I think > it'll make things easier for a lot of the Government. > > Thanks, > Cem Karan > > > -Original Message-

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) Version 0.4.1

2017-03-17 Thread Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US)
Karan > -Original Message- > From: License-discuss [mailto:license-discuss-boun...@opensource.org] On > Behalf Of Tom Callaway > Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 8:46 PM > To: license-discuss@opensource.org > Subject: Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: Po

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) Version 0.4.1

2017-03-16 Thread John Cowan
er case, is not a protected mark of the OSI or anyone else. When someone misuses it, we generally ask them nicely not to (if we find out about it). But only "OSI Certified" is or was protected. In particular, if for example a license were legally equivalent to the BSD license, the OSI would p

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) Version 0.4.1

2017-03-16 Thread Tom Callaway
ed Hat consider it to be Open Source? > > Thanks, > Cem Karan > > > -Original Message- > > From: License-discuss [mailto:license-discuss-boun...@opensource.org] > On Behalf Of Tom Callaway > > Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 3:31 PM > > To: license-discu

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) Version 0.4.1

2017-03-16 Thread Marc Jones
I also can't speak for Debian. But it is my understanding that Debian does not rely on OSI for determining if a license is free. They use their own Debian Free Software Guidelines. (Although they are very similar.) Someone at Debian maintains a FAQ on the DFSG [1] Debian also has a Licensing page

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) Version 0.4.1

2017-03-16 Thread Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US)
Cool! Would Fedora/Red Hat consider it to be Open Source? Thanks, Cem Karan > -Original Message- > From: License-discuss [mailto:license-discuss-boun...@opensource.org] On > Behalf Of Tom Callaway > Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 3:31 PM > To: license-discuss@opensourc

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) Version 0.4.1

2017-03-16 Thread Tom Callaway
I'm not after plain vanilla CC0 code to be called Open Source, I'm > after the method I outlined earlier. This side-steps the need to have CC0 > put forth by the license steward (I hope!). I know that is splitting > hairs, but at this point I'm tearing my hair out over this, and would like

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) Version 0.4.1

2017-03-16 Thread Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US)
the work (would Debian? I honestly don't know). And I'm not after plain vanilla CC0 code to be called Open Source, I'm after the method I outlined earlier. This side-steps the need to have CC0 put forth by the license steward (I hope!). I know that is splitting hairs, but at this point I'm

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) Version 0.4.1

2017-03-16 Thread Tzeng, Nigel H.
CC0 through license review as you aren’t the license steward. It is up to CC to resubmit CC0 for approval. Regards, Nigel On 3/16/17, 8:56 AM, "License-discuss on behalf of Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US)" <license-discuss-boun...@opensource.org on behalf of cem.f.karan

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) Version 0.4.1

2017-03-16 Thread Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US)
license. Is this acceptable to OSI? Should I move this discussion to the license-review list? To recap: 1) This would only cover USG works that do not have copyright. Works that have copyright would be eligible to use copyright-based licenses, and to be OSI-approved as Open Source would need

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: patent rights and the OSD

2017-03-08 Thread Lawrence Rosen
gel H. [mailto:nigel.tz...@jhuapl.edu] Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2017 12:33 PM To: lro...@rosenlaw.com; license-discuss@opensource.org Subject: RE: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: patent rights and the OSD Larry, I read it and even with some vague knowledge of the domain I do

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: patent rights and the OSD

2017-03-08 Thread Tzeng, Nigel H.
aw.com>> Date: Wednesday, Mar 08, 2017, 3:08 PM To: license-discuss@opensource.org <license-discuss@opensource.org<mailto:license-discuss@opensource.org>> Cc: Lawrence Rosen <lro...@rosenlaw.com<mailto:lro...@rosenlaw.com>> Subject: Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD S

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] code.mil update

2017-03-08 Thread Luis Villa
On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 12:11 PM Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US) < cem.f.karan@mail.mil> wrote: > > -Original Message- > > From: License-discuss [mailto:license-discuss-boun...@opensource.org] > On Behalf Of Luis Villa > > Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] code.mil update

2017-03-08 Thread Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US)
> -Original Message- > From: License-discuss [mailto:license-discuss-boun...@opensource.org] On > Behalf Of Luis Villa > Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 2:51 PM > To: license-discuss@opensource.org > Subject: Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] code.mil update >

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: patent rights and the OSD

2017-03-08 Thread Lawrence Rosen
Nigel Tzeng wrote: > Using US7460689B1 System and method of detecting, recognizing, and tracking > moving targets as an example it could be useful to have an open source > copyright license to any USG developed MTI implementation of US7460689B1 > because the libraries and fu

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] code.mil update

2017-03-08 Thread Luis Villa
On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 7:03 AM Christopher Sean Morrison <brl...@mac.com> wrote: > > > On Mar 8, 2017, at 9:32 AM, Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US) < > cem.f.karan@mail.mil> wrote: > > > > You might want to re-read what they posted; the license

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: patent rights and the OSD

2017-03-08 Thread Tzeng, Nigel H.
Cem, To give them a more concrete example (hopefully not a flawed one ☺) I skimmed ARLs patent portfolio. Using US7460689B1 System and method of detecting, recognizing, and tracking moving targets as an example it could be useful to have an open source copyright license to any USG developed

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] code.mil update

2017-03-08 Thread Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US)
> -Original Message- > From: License-discuss [mailto:license-discuss-boun...@opensource.org] On > Behalf Of Christopher Sean Morrison > Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 10:03 AM > To: license-discuss@opensource.org > Subject: Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Sourc

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] code.mil update

2017-03-08 Thread Christopher Sean Morrison
> On Mar 8, 2017, at 9:32 AM, Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US) > <cem.f.karan@mail.mil> wrote: > > You might want to re-read what they posted; the license applies only to those > portions of the code that have copyright attached, otherwise it's public

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: patent rights and the OSD

2017-03-08 Thread Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US)
I can pass it through ARL's lawyers, as well as pass it to the code.gov people. Thanks, Cem Karan > -Original Message- > From: License-discuss [mailto:license-discuss-boun...@opensource.org] On > Behalf Of Stephen Kellat > Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2017 10:41 PM > To:

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] code.mil update

2017-03-08 Thread Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US)
You might want to re-read what they posted; the license applies only to those portions of the code that have copyright attached, otherwise it's public domain. The trick is that while US Government (USG) works are ineligible for copyright within the US, they may be eligible for copyright

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: patent rights and the OSD

2017-03-08 Thread Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US)
I see your point. OK, so I'm going throw out a strawman here, just to see what happens. Assume for the sake of argument that OSI decides to add a patent grant/license/whatever as part of the requirements of the OSD. Will OSI then re-evaluate all currently approved licenses using the new

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] patent rights and the OSD

2017-03-08 Thread Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US)
that policy; I'm encouraging anyone I run in to do so, but other agencies in theory could adopt very different policies. Caveat emptor (or whatever the equivalent is in this case). Thanks, Cem Karan > -Original Message- > From: License-discuss [mailto:license-discuss-boun...@opensour

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: patent rights and the OSD

2017-03-07 Thread Stephen Kellat
For large government systems significant software components could often be > reused without the specific portions covered under patent. > > So just having a copyright license to the entire project would provide > significant value to the community. There is code I wrote 30 years

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: patent rights and the OSD

2017-03-07 Thread Tzeng, Nigel H.
the perspective of being able to use the system as built it is less relevant from a code reuse perspective. For large government systems significant software components could often be reused without the specific portions covered under patent. So just having a copyright license to the entire project would

Re: [License-discuss] patent rights and the OSD

2017-03-07 Thread Ben Tilly
gt; > *From:* Ben Tilly [mailto:bti...@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Tuesday, March 7, 2017 4:27 PM > *To:* Lawrence Rosen <lro...@rosenlaw.com>; License Discuss < > license-discuss@opensource.org> > *Subject:* Re: [License-discuss] patent rights and the OSD > > > > *[]

[License-discuss] code.mil update

2017-03-07 Thread Christopher Sean Morrison
On a rather unrelated note (apologies for the deluge of e-mails today!), the folks behind code.mil have responded to public feedback and are proposing significant changes to their approach. Instead of wrapping an OSI license as before, they now propose to directly utilize an existing

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: patent rights and the OSD

2017-03-07 Thread Christopher Sean Morrison
On Mar 07, 2017, at 07:15 PM, "Tzeng, Nigel H." <nigel.tz...@jhuapl.edu> wrote: I dislike this approach. If CC0 passes OSD then it should get approved as is. If a patent grant is now a requirement to pass the OSD it should be added as a criteria and a license passe

Re: [License-discuss] patent rights and the OSD

2017-03-07 Thread Lawrence Rosen
m: Ben Tilly [mailto:bti...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 7, 2017 4:27 PM To: Lawrence Rosen <lro...@rosenlaw.com>; License Discuss <license-discuss@opensource.org> Subject: Re: [License-discuss] patent rights and the OSD [] IANALTINLA and all that. On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 3:57

Re: [License-discuss] patent rights and the OSD

2017-03-07 Thread Christopher Sean Morrison
n my view. Cheers! Sean _______ License-discuss mailing list License-discuss@opensource.org https://lists.opensource.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/license-discuss

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: patent rights and the OSD

2017-03-07 Thread Tzeng, Nigel H.
I dislike this approach. If CC0 passes OSD then it should get approved as is. If a patent grant is now a requirement to pass the OSD it should be added as a criteria and a license passes or fails based on the license text itself. Not CC0 and some patent agreement that has not been written

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] patent rights and the OSD

2017-03-07 Thread Tzeng, Nigel H.
they do a FOSS release. From: Christopher Sean Morrison <brl...@mac.com<mailto:brl...@mac.com>> Date: Tuesday, Mar 07, 2017, 5:57 PM To: license-discuss@opensource.org <license-discuss@opensource.org<mailto:license-discuss@opensource.org>> Subject: Re: [License-discuss] [Non-D

Re: [License-discuss] patent rights and the OSD

2017-03-07 Thread Lawrence Rosen
e-code-policy/issues/149), I can agree it is a complicated problem. /Larry From: License-discuss [mailto:license-discuss-boun...@opensource.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Sean Morrison Sent: Tuesday, March 7, 2017 3:10 PM To: license-discuss@opensource.org Cc: License Discuss <

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] patent rights and the OSD

2017-03-07 Thread Tzeng, Nigel H.
From: Christopher Sean Morrison <brl...@mac.com<mailto:brl...@mac.com>> Date: Tuesday, Mar 07, 2017, 5:57 PM To: license-discuss@opensource.org <license-discuss@opensource.org<mailto:license-discuss@opensource.org>> Subject: Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] p

Re: [License-discuss] patent rights and the OSD

2017-03-07 Thread Christopher Sean Morrison
On Mar 07, 2017, at 04:45 PM, Ben Tilly <bti...@gmail.com> wrote: When we talk about whether a software license is OSD compliant, we are only addressing the question of whether this license restricts software under copyright law in a way that violates the OSD. I hear you, but I don

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] patent rights and the OSD

2017-03-07 Thread Christopher Sean Morrison
'Clear BSD' license, which the FSF considers not only a free software license but also GPL-compatible: https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/License:ClearBSD https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.en.html#clearbsd But I am not aware of this license ever having been submitted for OSI approval. It'

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] patent rights and the OSD

2017-03-07 Thread Lawrence Rosen
Richard Fontana suggested: > So in other words, "this license is Open Source to the extent that, when > used, it is accompanied by [a separate appropriate patent license grant]", > for example? Richard, that sounds like a great compromise that the government agencies mig

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: patent rights and the OSD

2017-03-07 Thread Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US)
That is true, but OSI can make it clear that when software is licensed, then the licensor is expected to license any necessary patents that the licensor owns along with licensing the copyright. If there are patents that the licensor is unaware of, then the licensor can't do anything about

Re: [License-discuss] patent rights and the OSD

2017-03-07 Thread Ben Tilly
describes. I may be unaware of or misinformed about any or all these potential encumbrances. When we talk about whether a software license is OSD compliant, we are only addressing the question of whether this license restricts software under copyright law in a way that violates the OSD

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] patent rights and the OSD

2017-03-07 Thread Richard Fontana
ts > kind.  If there ARE, then CC0 would not create a precedent situation > any worse than currently exists and approval could move forward. I'm not aware of any. There is the 'Clear BSD' license, which the FSF considers not only a free software license but also GPL-compatible: https://directo

Re: [License-discuss] patent rights and the OSD

2017-03-07 Thread David Woolley
purposes) to anyone with a copy. UK law does require an explicit use permission. Because it is US-centric, there was no conception that you might need to give an explicit permission to use. ___ License-discuss mailing list License-discuss

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] patent rights and the OSD

2017-03-07 Thread Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US)
> -Original Message- > From: License-discuss [mailto:license-discuss-boun...@opensource.org] On > Behalf Of Christopher Sean Morrison > Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2017 10:56 AM > To: license-discuss@opensource.org > Subject: Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] patent

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] patent rights and the OSD

2017-03-07 Thread Christopher Sean Morrison
On Mar 07, 2017, at 09:07 AM, "Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US)" <cem.f.karan@mail.mil> wrote:I personally think that software that is distributed without a patent license or a waiver of patent claims is not Open Source (this is my opinion, and not a Government positi

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] patent rights and the OSD

2017-03-07 Thread Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US)
I personally think that software that is distributed without a patent license or a waiver of patent claims is not Open Source (this is my opinion, and not a Government position). It prevents people from freely modifying the code. That said, I don't have a problem with someone holding

Re: [License-discuss] patent rights and the OSD

2017-03-07 Thread Christopher Sean Morrison
porting/exporting their invention. The OSD clauses refer to “the >> distribution terms” in rather license- and copyright-agnostic terms, >> so here’s my basic layman analysis: >> >> 1) Exclusion (a) seems not problematic for the OSD as it precludes >> others out

[License-discuss] patent rights and the OSD

2017-03-06 Thread Christopher Sean Morrison
) importing/exporting their invention. The OSD clauses refer to “the distribution terms” in rather license- and copyright-agnostic terms, so here’s my basic layman analysis: 1) Exclusion (a) seems not problematic for the OSD as it precludes others outside of licensing. 2) Certainly a problem

Re: [License-discuss] Protecting database integrity

2017-03-05 Thread Grahame Grieve
you can do the same - you can release the code under open source license, but use the trademark to ensure certain policies are followed. The community will probably ignore your code if they don't like the policies. Grahame On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 4:18 PM, John Cowan <co...@ccil.org>

Re: [License-discuss] Protecting database integrity

2017-03-05 Thread John Cowan
On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 10:52 PM, Terrence Bull <terre...@woogloo.com> wrote: I do wonder how Google makes Android open source yet requires everyone that > makes ‘copies’ to be connected to the Play store. Do they have some sort of > special open source license they use? >

Re: [License-discuss] Protecting database integrity

2017-03-05 Thread Terrence Bull
they have some sort of special open source license they use? Anyway, thanks for your help. Kind Regards, Terrence Bull (aka: Bob Woofix) CEO/Founder NZ HB: 06-876 9201 M: 021-088 52 847 E: terre...@woogloo.com W: www.woogloo.com Skype: bob.woofix Bob says: “Woogloo V3: the power to dream

Re: [License-discuss] Protecting database integrity

2017-03-05 Thread John Cowan
rsal’ nature of > the system. > I don't see that any sort of _public_ license, open-source or not, will work. You will have to get every user to sign a contract to that effect, along with preventing all redistribution, and there is of course no way to do that consistently with the Open Source

[License-discuss] Protecting database integrity

2017-03-05 Thread Terrence Bull
to be considered in terms of what open source license to use and if it needs some sort of modification to ensure the system's longterm integrity? Thanks for your help in advance. Kind Regards, Terrence Bull (aka: Bob Woofix) CEO/Founder NZ HB: 06-876 9201 M: 021-088 52 847 E: terre...@woogloo.com W

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) Version 0.4.1

2017-03-03 Thread Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US)
ARL's policy is to waive its own potential patent rights before releasing the software. If there are extra rights that we can't license/release for this purpose, then our legal team will refuse to allow the software's release, so anything ARL releases under our policy should be clean from

Re: [License-discuss] Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) Version 0.4.1

2017-03-02 Thread Jim Wright
is that they could better attend to this problem right now by choosing any existing OSI license, preferably one with a clear patent license, and if Cem is looking to ensure that their projects are Open Source in the immediate term, this is a path that requires nothing of the rest of us and little

Re: [License-discuss] Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) Version 0.4.1

2017-03-02 Thread Jim Wright
Something is certainly better than nothing, I agree, but I think many of us would rather have an express and broad license from all participants in a project, including the government, than to have to rely on less than well understood public domain dedications and waivers of patent rights

Re: [License-discuss] Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) Version 0.4.1

2017-03-01 Thread Lawrence Rosen
Jim Wright wrote: > in the absence of action on CC0 that would not be unanimously supported to > say the least I know that is true but I don't know what it means for this license-discuss@ list. I haven't personally voted on a license in years. According to several government folk

Re: [License-discuss] Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) Version 0.4.1

2017-03-01 Thread Diane Peters
do > with OSI's approval of CC0. This WE can do now on our own on behalf of > government open source. > > > > /Larry > > > > > > *From:* Jim Wright [mailto:jim.wri...@oracle.com] > *Sent:* Wednesday, March 1, 2017 2:59 PM > *To:* lro...@rosenlaw.com; li

Re: [License-discuss] Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) Version 0.4.1

2017-03-01 Thread Lawrence Rosen
PM To: lro...@rosenlaw.com; license-discuss@opensource.org Subject: Re: [License-discuss] Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) Version 0.4.1 Something is certainly better than nothing, I agree, but I think many of us would rather have an expr

Re: [License-discuss] [somewhat OT provocation] justifying the commercial no-discrimination clause

2017-03-01 Thread Rick Moen
g his name, thought Caw." Rick Moen -- Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey r...@linuxmafia.com McQ! (4x80) ___________ License-discuss mailing list License-discuss@opensource.org https://lists.opensource.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/license-discuss

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) Version 0.4.1

2017-03-01 Thread Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US)
> -Original Message- > From: License-discuss [mailto:license-discuss-boun...@opensource.org] > On Behalf Of Lawrence Rosen > Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 5:01 PM > To: license-discuss@opensource.org > Cc: Lawrence Rosen <lro...@rosenlaw.com> > Subject: [N

Re: [License-discuss] Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) Version 0.4.1

2017-03-01 Thread Lawrence Rosen
Jim Wright wrote: > it seems odd to me to require a dedication to the public domain in any event > - stuff is either in the public domain by law or isn’t, and to whatever > extent it isn’t, we should have a copyright license, full stop. Similarly as > to patents, I don’t want to

[License-discuss] [somewhat OT provocation] justifying the commercial no-discrimination clause

2017-03-01 Thread Luis Villa
;* *+1-415-938-4552* ___ License-discuss mailing list License-discuss@opensource.org https://lists.opensource.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/license-discuss

Re: [License-discuss] Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) Version 0.4.1

2017-03-01 Thread Jim Wright
Of course, as Richard pointed out earlier, this would also be true as to the ASL, etc., except to the extent that the government choosing to effectively “waive" patent rights as Cem has said is not the same thing as a terminable patent license in the ASL - the UPL thus arguably pu

Re: [License-discuss] Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) Version 0.4.1

2017-03-01 Thread Jim Wright
Indeed, if there’s no copyright in the US, there may be no need of a copyright license from the government here, but in any event there *is* an OSI approved permissive license that licenses both any applicable copyright rights (without actually requiring that the government have any) and patent

Re: [License-discuss] Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) Version 0.4.1

2017-03-01 Thread Christopher Sean Morrison
> On Mar 1, 2017, at 4:17 PM, Rick Moen <r...@linuxmafia.com> wrote: > > Quoting Lawrence Rosen (lro...@rosenlaw.com): > >> The question remains from many years of discussion here: What is wrong >> with CC0 being approved by OSI as a license for components in

Re: [License-discuss] Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) Version 0.4.1

2017-03-01 Thread Rick Moen
Quoting Lawrence Rosen (lro...@rosenlaw.com): > The question remains from many years of discussion here: What is wrong > with CC0 being approved by OSI as a license for components in other > open source software? Including for U.S. government works that may (or > may not) be p

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) Version 0.4.1

2017-03-01 Thread Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US)
THANK YOU! Thanks, Cem Karan > -Original Message- > From: License-discuss [mailto:license-discuss-boun...@opensource.org] On > Behalf Of Christopher Sean Morrison > Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 1:51 PM > To: License Discussion Mailing List <license-discuss@opensou

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) Version 0.4.1

2017-03-01 Thread Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US)
I understand; ARL's policy is LONG, and skimming is just about the only way to not have your brain fry. :) That said, does it address your concerns about the patent issues? Thanks, Cem Karan > -Original Message- > From: License-discuss [mailto:license-discuss-boun...@opensour

Re: [License-discuss] Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) Version 0.4.1

2017-03-01 Thread Richard Fontana
implications of explicitly denying patent rights may have on the > liberal licenses. That commentary was not grounds for disapproval > and not a fault of CC0, it was primarily a social and license impact > discussion, but it was withdrawn regardless. So … I think it was withdrawn before the discu

Re: [License-discuss] Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) Version 0.4.1

2017-03-01 Thread Christopher Sean Morrison
> A proposed solution, however, is that the U.S. government will distribute > software under CC0. I don't care if that is sensible. I don't care if that is > odd. I do care that CC0 be an OSI-approved license, regardless of its flaws. > > That will reaffirm the authority i

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) Version 0.4.1

2017-03-01 Thread Tzeng, Nigel H.
gt;> Date: Wednesday, Mar 01, 2017, 12:40 PM To: license-discuss@opensource.org <license-discuss@opensource.org<mailto:license-discuss@opensource.org>> Subject: Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) Version 0.4.1

2017-03-01 Thread Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US)
agencies, I'm only stating my personal opinion on this. Thanks, Cem Karan > -Original Message- > From: License-discuss [mailto:license-discuss-boun...@opensource.org] On > Behalf Of Tzeng, Nigel H. > Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 12:37 PM > To: license-discuss@opensource.

Re: [License-discuss] Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) Version 0.4.1

2017-03-01 Thread Lawrence Rosen
Nigel Tzeng wrote: > If DOSA explicitly defines the licensing authority I would prefer it be stated as any DOD approved open source license. Isn't that already true for every software distributor, including the U.S. government? Every distributor controls its own licensing strategies. E

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) Version 0.4.1

2017-03-01 Thread Karan, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US)
That is actually a part of ARL's policy. If you haven't looked at the policy yet, go to https://github.com/USArmyResearchLab/ARL-Open-Source-Guidance-and-Instructions and take a look. Thanks, Cem Karan > -Original Message- > From: License-discuss [mailto:license-discus

Re: [License-discuss] [Non-DoD Source] Re: Possible alternative was: Re: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Open Source License (ARL OSL) Version 0.4.1

2017-03-01 Thread Richard Fontana
, Cem F CIV USARMY RDECOM ARL (US) wrote: > No. The material can always be separated into two piles; stuff that has > copyright attached, and stuff that does not have copyright attached. The > stuff that has copyright attached is always released under the chosen > OSI-approved license

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