[Lightning-dev] [RFC] option_static_remotekey

2019-03-14 Thread Rusty Russell
Hi all! Roasbeef suggested we split up option_simplified_commitment, since it is fairly ambitious. In particular, he wanted the static remote_key feature ASAP, and Christian agreed. I chose to add the fairly trivial symmetric output to this, as it affects the same output, and resolves th

Re: [Lightning-dev] Just in Time Routing (JIT-Routing) and a channel rebalancing heuristic as an add on for improved routing success in BOLT 1.0

2019-03-14 Thread René Pickhardt via Lightning-dev
Hey everyone, I am glad the suggestion is being picked up. At this time I want to respond to two of the concerns that have been thrown in. I have some other comments and ideas but would like to hold them back so that we can have more people joining the discussion without bias also this mail will a

Re: [Lightning-dev] Fee structure

2019-03-14 Thread John-John Markstedt
God afternoon ZmnSCPxj, Sorry if I was being a bit pedantic, I just want to be clear that I agree with both yours and Andrea's arguments in the initial responses and I see now why the idea doesn't make much sense at all in terms of scale and privacy. > > My initial point was that the fee would b

Re: [Lightning-dev] Just in Time Routing (JIT-Routing) and a channel rebalancing heuristic as an add on for improved routing success in BOLT 1.0

2019-03-14 Thread Ariel Lorenzo-Luaces
Hello Rene, ZmnSCPxj, and list  I really like the proposal and I'm sure it's the correct way forward for reducing payment failures and increasing privacy (through mitigating probing based network analysis)  However I am concerned that this proposal could introduce a vulnerability to a spoofe

Re: [Lightning-dev] More thoughts on NOINPUT safety

2019-03-14 Thread Christian Decker
Anthony Towns writes: > I'm thinking of tagged outputs as "taproot plus" (ie, plus noinput), > so if you used a tagged output, you could do everything normal taproot > address could, but also do noinput sigs for them. > > So you might have: > >funding tx -> cooperative claim > >funding tx

Re: [Lightning-dev] Just in Time Routing (JIT-Routing) and a channel rebalancing heuristic as an add on for improved routing success in BOLT 1.0

2019-03-14 Thread ZmnSCPxj via Lightning-dev
Good morning Rene and list, Let us consider then the rule *when* a rebalancing would be beneficial to the node. The node is offered a fee amount (`offered_fee_amount`) for the forwarding. It knows that, under current channel states, it will definitely have to fail and earn 0 fees. If it engage

Re: [Lightning-dev] Fee structure

2019-03-14 Thread ZmnSCPxj via Lightning-dev
Good morning John-John, > > > That would not regard the size of the payments though? A payment leaving > > > the balance at the far end would pay the same proportional fee as one > > > close to the middle. > > > > "Proportional" means the fee paid is greater if the payment being forwarded > >

Re: [Lightning-dev] Fee structure

2019-03-14 Thread John-John Markstedt
> > That would not regard the size of the payments though? A payment leaving > the balance at the far end would pay the same proportional fee as one close > to the middle. > > "Proportional" means the fee paid is greater if the payment being > forwarded is greater. > That is what "proportional" mea

Re: [Lightning-dev] Fee structure

2019-03-14 Thread ZmnSCPxj via Lightning-dev
Good morning John-John, > That would not regard the size of the payments though? A payment leaving the > balance at the far end would pay the same proportional fee as one close to > the middle. "Proportional" means the fee paid is greater if the payment being forwarded is greater. That is what

Re: [Lightning-dev] Fee structure

2019-03-14 Thread John-John Markstedt
Good morning Andrea and ZmnSCPxj, I wrongly assumed the channel balances needed to be known anyway to create a route. I see now why that is not the case and why it would scale horribly, in fact it scales no better than layer 1 as everyone needs to be notified of every payment. It would also defeat

Re: [Lightning-dev] More thoughts on NOINPUT safety

2019-03-14 Thread ZmnSCPxj via Lightning-dev
Good morning aj, > > Trying to maximise privacy there has the disadvantage that you have to > do a new signature for every in-flight HTLC every time you update the > state, which could be a lot of signatures for very active channels. If I remember accurately this is already true for current Poon-

Re: [Lightning-dev] More thoughts on NOINPUT safety

2019-03-14 Thread Anthony Towns
On Thu, Mar 14, 2019 at 05:22:59AM +, ZmnSCPxj via Lightning-dev wrote: > When reading through your original post I saw you mentioned something about > output tagging somehow conflicting with Taproot, so I assumed Taproot is not > useable in this case. I'm thinking of tagged outputs as "tapr