On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 11:50 AM, Valentin Villenave
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
2008/8/18 Graham Percival [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
That seems trivial -- surely everybody knows this already -- so
let's discuss a specific example. I'll pick on Valentin since he
won't mind... and also since he's almost
2008/8/18 Graham Percival [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
That seems trivial -- surely everybody knows this already -- so
let's discuss a specific example. I'll pick on Valentin since he
won't mind... and also since he's almost a complete opposite of
me.
Please do not think of me as a yes-man :-)
(If
Greetings, all -
I'm getting confused and slightly distressed. I'm now spending close to an
hour a day just reading the discussion list! I'm signed up to do the
indexing, but as far as I know there's nothing ready to be indexed. I'd be
willing to try to write some snippets, but I don't know
Hi Graham,
I'm not saying that doing a 2-hour feature is bad, but I
*definitely* disagree
that losing somebody from the doc team isn't cause for serious
concern.
A feature-freeze and/or bug-extension is more concerning to me…
But that's (another reason) why I'm not the Documentation
On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 10:15 AM, Ralph Palmer
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Greetings, all -
I'm getting confused and slightly distressed. I'm now spending close to an
hour a day just reading the discussion list! I'm signed up to do th
It seems that the documentation team is worried about
On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:54:44 -0300
Han-Wen Nienhuys [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 10:15 AM, Ralph Palmer
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Greetings, all -
I'm getting confused and slightly distressed. I'm now spending
close to an hour a day just reading the discussion list!
2008/8/18 Graham Percival [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2008 18:42:38 +0200
John Mandereau [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Why not doing both?
Because it's impossible to do both at the same time. It takes
time and energy to answer emails or write docs.
That seems trivial -- surely everybody
I owe you an enormous debt of gratitude for your advice, patience, and
persistence in demanding a better product from me.
I'll talk more with Valentin and Neil about the Snippet Repository.
Break a leg tomorrow,
Ralph
On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 4:25 PM, Graham Percival [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2008 18:42:38 +0200
John Mandereau [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
2008/8/13 Graham Percival [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
It's a waste because, 7 days from now, there will be precisely
half a dozen people who are updating the documentation. There's
at least 50 people who can answer simple
Hi Graham,
I agree with *most* of your post here… except
I honestly think that stopping the doc team from disintegrating
is more important than nice new features like that.
Depending on the feature, this can be *far* more important than
having one person stay with the doc team. If you're
On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 22:34:20 -0400
Kieren MacMillan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi Graham,
I agree with *most* of your post here___ except
I honestly think that stopping the doc team from disintegrating
is more important than nice new features like that.
Depending on the feature, this
Kieren MacMillan kieren_macmillan at sympatico.ca writes:
Hi Graham,
I agree with *most* of your post here… except
I honestly think that stopping the doc team from disintegrating
is more important than nice new features like that.
Depending on the feature, this can be *far* more
2008/8/11 Bertalan Fodor (LilyPondTool) [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
My point is that lilypond-user reading users won't get used to it. Many of
them are newcomers and beginners. They don't usually follow the
conversations on the list.
Perhaps it's because of my software developer experience, but I am
2008/8/13 Graham Percival [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
It's a waste because, 7 days from now, there will be precisely
half a dozen people who are updating the documentation. There's
at least 50 people who can answer simple questions here. To be
efficient, those six people should spend their time
On di, 2008-08-12 at 20:08 +0200, James E. Bailey wrote:
And am I the only one who thinks of cars seeing MG?
Nope, no cars here.
:-)
--
Jan Nieuwenhuizen [EMAIL PROTECTED] | GNU LilyPond - The music typesetter
http://www.xs4all.nl/~jantien | http://www.lilypond.org
SL AU
2008/8/13 Graham Percival [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Then you need to RTFML. Especially things from me. :) - Graham
Nah, I decided to skip all these months ago -- actually from the day
you referred to me as a Callifornia Valley Girl :-)
As a matter of fact, I've even configured a mail filter
2008/8/13 Nicholas Wastell [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
My point is that if he doesn't like the newbie stuff in -user, he should just
keep away. The newbie stuff has to go somewhere; Graham wouldn't be upset by
it and the list would be a more welcoming place. I no longer post my queries
on here,
Nicholas Wastell wrote Wednesday, August 13, 2008 8:41 AM
The Lilypond lists have an air of exclusivity which is already very
intimidating to newcomers. Overtly abrasive attitude and widespread use
of jargon and abbreviations are rife. What's acceptable and amusing
between experienced
I've watched this thread from the sidelines and up to now have remained
silent as I didn't want to throw gasoline on a potential flame war.
That is not my intent now, either.
I do have to say that I agree with Nicholas, however.
Nicholas Wastell wrote:
On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 21:23:56 +0200
My goodness, how time flies. Is it really time for our yearly we
want more for nothing argument?
On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 09:18:36 +
David Bobroff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Nicholas Wastell wrote:
Don't patronise me, don't make excuses for Graham and I stand by
what I wrote. I'm sure that
2008/8/13 Valentin Villenave [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
I know I should probably not feed the troll here, but let me remind
you that there's also
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user-fr ; last time I
checked it was still safe from big evil Graham (if anything).
Well, that's an example
On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 03:07:14 -0700
Graham Percival [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm busy and pissed off at the amount of time I've spent on
lilypond. Approximately three thousand hours now... and I stopped
composing and arranging *FOUR YEARS* ago.
Did someone hold a gun to your head? If you
David Bobroff wrote:
... much cool stuff elided...
who use it, the better. If we start kicking people in the teeth for
every stupid question or, more importantly, for the *first* stupid
question, I suspect LilyPond will have a smaller set of users.
Well, how many questions do we have to wait?
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 7:07 AM, Graham Percival [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm busy and pissed off at the amount of time I've spent on
lilypond. Approximately three thousand hours now... and I stopped
composing and arranging *FOUR YEARS* ago.
What does three thousand hours mean? Well, if I
Starting point -
On 12/08 18:11:15, Nicholas Wastell wrote:
[ in response to Graham ]
If you don't like the rtfm questions, don't answer them. There are,
fortunately, some folks on the list with an ounce of patience and
good manners.
Hm. Gee, that was subtle. :)
Valentin (quite
On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 14:00:51 -0700
Graham Percival [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Having spent well over a hundred hours on such [stupid, newbie rtfm]
idiodicies in the past four years, I have no patience left for them.
Well, you don't say. I've no doubt you've done the Lilypond project a great
Hello,
BTW, AU is what? An Astronomical Unit??? IR is commonly recognized is
InfraRed :-))) IMHO there should be some sort of FAQ :-))) And in the
end - PCMCIA (People Can't Memorize Computer Industry Acronyms) ... :-)))
Tomas Valusek
Valentin Villenave napsal(a):
2008/8/11 Bertalan Fodor
no, AU is audio unit. It's a type of plugin for core audio on
macintosh computers.
And am I the only one who thinks of cars seeing MG?
Am 12.08.2008 um 19:43 schrieb Tomas Valusek:
Hello,
BTW, AU is what? An Astronomical Unit??? IR is commonly recognized
is InfraRed :-))) IMHO there
2008/8/12 Nicholas Wastell [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
If you don't like the rtfm questions, don't answer them. There are,
fortunately, some folks on the list with an ounce of patience and good
manners.
Graham will probably not answer that, but... if you had been following
discussions on -user and
Actually, MG is a state of brazil, to me.
On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 3:08 PM, James E. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
no, AU is audio unit. It's a type of plugin for core audio on macintosh
computers.
And am I the only one who thinks of cars seeing MG?
--
Han-Wen Nienhuys - [EMAIL
2008/8/12 Ralph Palmer [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Anyone else remember Booker T. and the . . . ?
In any case, it might make sense to use at least some of the acronyms
judiciously. There is a wide variety of users on this list, and many of the
discussions are, while not exclusive, at least aimed at a
I agree, Dominic. It wasn't intended to be insular. On the other hand, when
someone is responding to a question about Scheme or about deep (I don't
even know the correct term) code, I don't see how one can, or if one should
try to, make the discussion intelligible to a newbie.
Ralph
On Tue, Aug
Sure, that´s right!
2008/8/12 Ralph Palmer [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
I agree, Dominic. It wasn't intended to be insular. On the other hand, when
someone is responding to a question about Scheme or about deep (I don't
even know the correct term) code, I don't see how one can, or if one should
try to,
Bertalan Fodor (LilyPondTool) wrote:
I must note however that I strongly disagree with the approach you
must read the manual first. Honestly, when you buy an house-hold
appliance you first read the manual? I doubt. For making the first cup
of coffee you won't read the manual. Later, when you
2008/8/12 Patrick Horgan [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
I agree only because it gives the appearance of a hostile atmosphere on the
lilypond user's list which I know is not the truth. A one line RTFM answer
is not good communication.
Except for very rare cases (some questions about MacOS10.5, I think),
Ralph Palmer wrote:
Anyone else remember Booker T. and the . . . ?
In any case, it might make sense to use at least some of the acronyms
judiciously. There is a wide variety of users on this list, and many
of the discussions are, while not exclusive, at least aimed at a
particular audience.
On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 00:07:51 +0200
Valentin Villenave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Except for very rare cases (some questions about MacOS10.5, I think),
I haven't seen /any/ one-line RTFM answer on any of these lists for
months years.
Then you need to RTFML. Especially things from me. :) -
2008/8/13 Graham Percival [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Then you need to RTFML. Especially things from me. :) - Graham
Nah, I decided to skip all these months ago -- actually from the day
you referred to me as a Callifornia Valley Girl :-)
As a matter of fact, I've even configured a mail filter which
May I ask you not use the abbreviaton of the various documentation parts
on the LilyPond user list?
I may be very short on mental capabilities, but I just can't (and well,
actually don't want to) remember these codes.
Thank you,
Bert
___
In a few months, these will be second nature. There's no point
typing out please see the Notation Reference 1.2.3 every time.
NR 1.2.3 is unambiguous, and saves time for people who spend time
answering rtfm questions.
Cheers,
- Graham
On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 11:36:07 +0200
Bertalan Fodor
Not for me :-)
Actually LM is ambiguous. It seems that lot of people interprets that as
LilyPond Manual.
I hate TLA-s a lot and will always hate them.
Bert
Graham Percival wrote:
In a few months, these will be second nature. There's no point
typing out please see the Notation Reference
What part of in a few months was unclear? In a few months, once
2.12 is out and the only (stable) docs refer to LM and NR, it will
be second nature.
If anybody doesn't understand what these two letter acronyms refer
to, they clearly haven't ready LM 1.2, and therefore I have
absolutely *no*
,
SL and AU with documentation).
/Mats
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
no mercy, but
even if you have
read it, I'm not convinced that you will directly associate all the
abbreviations LM, MG, NR, IR,
SL and AU with documentation).
/Mats
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman
Then why not call it human? For example: Guide and Reference.
Abbreviations are evil, because they are always clear and unambigous for
someone who uses them or used them recently, but they confuse newcomers,
take time and mental energy to decode for not so regular uses, and annoy
me :-)
Not
2008/8/11 Bertalan Fodor (LilyPondTool) [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Then why not call it human? For example: Guide and Reference.
Abbreviations are evil, because they are always clear and unambigous for
someone who uses them or used them recently, but they confuse newcomers,
take time and mental energy
Valentin Villenave wrote:
LearnMan
NotRef
IntRef
MusGloss
SnipList
These don't provide any advantage. They are still incomprehensible for
newcomers and they are
longer to write and harder to remember for the rest of us.
/Mats
___
Good point, but RTFM answers are generally not the most interesting
part of any maillist archive.
Hahah, RTFM is also an acronym, and not by coincidence. It expresses
exactly what I hate in abbreviations. Poor beginner users who really
doesn't know what they want to ask (because they have
2008/8/11 Bertalan Fodor (LilyPondTool) [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
My point is that lilypond-user reading users won't get used to it. Many of
them are newcomers and beginners. They don't usually follow the
conversations on the list.
Referring to NRx.x is still okay when you're talking to devs and doc
On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 15:30:43 +0200
Bertalan Fodor (LilyPondTool) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I must note however that I strongly disagree with the approach you
must read the manual first. Honestly, when you buy an house-hold
appliance you first read the manual? I doubt. For making the first
cup
On Wednesday 07 December 2005 11.25, Gordon Gilbert wrote:
Hi!
What's the syntax in 2.7.20 for skip lyrics? Previously, I had
%shorthand for Skip Lyric
sl = { \skip 2 }
in the global section, and
\sl
where the words demanded it. How should that be?
IIRC, you can now
Hi Erik,
Yes, I did finally discover that. I'm slowly getting used to how the
newer version works (2.7.20), and like the somewhat-streamlined syntax a
whole lot. I'm definitely not a geek, so whenever something has been
simplified, it's better for me.
Blessings,
Fr. Gordon Gilbert
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