simplifying chromatic scale notation

Dear Lilyponders, I just struggled with studying a complex music piece and thought that all the chromatic lines are horrible to read in standard notation. Especially the "enharmonic problem" is distracting the musician from a very simple musical structure. So I tried some of my ideas and can

Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

On 25.01.2016 22:19, musicus wrote: I just struggled with studying a complex music piece and thought that all the chromatic lines are horrible to read in standard notation. Especially the "enharmonic problem" is distracting the musician from a very simple musical structure. So I tried some of m

Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

Hi musicus, This may just be the result of forty years of performing and composing in the Western notation system (it’s always hard to overcome that kind of inertia)… but I find it easier to read the standard notation than your suggested alternative. Best, Kieren. _

Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

Am 26.01.2016 um 00:05 schrieb musicus: > @Simon: I was not aware of Clairnote, but that direction was not my > intention... > > @Kieren: I agree with you regarding reading... > my point is that this notation could help to understand and remember > the structure. > Especially in modern/ contempor

Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

Kieren MacMillan writes: > Hi musicus, > > This may just be the result of forty years of performing and composing > in the Western notation system (it’s always hard to overcome that kind > of inertia)… but I find it easier to read the standard notation than > your suggested alternative. For "Wes

Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

musicus writes: > @Simon: I was not aware of Clairnote, but that direction was not my > intention... > > @Kieren: I agree with you regarding reading... > my point is that this notation could help to understand and remember > the structure. > Especially in modern/ contemporary music there are many

Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

> On Jan 25, 2016, at 4:19 PM, musicus wrote: > > See attached. Comments, suggestions are very welcome ;) Hi musicus, I think you’re right that standard notation is not as good as it could be for such chromatic music, and you have an interesting approach for improving it. I agree with what

Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

On 2016-01-25 21:35, Paul Morris wrote: On Jan 25, 2016, at 4:19 PM, musicus wrote: See attached. Comments, suggestions are very welcome ;) Hi musicus, I think you’re right that standard notation is not as good as it could be for such chromatic music, and you have an interesting approach for

Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

Malte Meyn writes: > Am 25.01.2016 um 22:19 schrieb musicus: >> >> See attached. Comments, suggestions are very welcome ;) >> > > I see some problems for pianists: > > 1. I like to know where exactly I am at a given time. For example I’d > like to know “c sharp on second beat” or “thumb on e sh

Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

Dear Paul, I really admire the effort and courage of alternative notation systems, but I cannot see a reasonable improvement in this case. I don't think it's a good idea to remove all great advantages, which our standard notation system has. IMO, there are only a few problems to be solved - c

Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

On 26 January 2016 at 05:35, Paul Morris wrote: > > One idea would be to use triangle shapes for the accidental notes to > better clarify their relation to the “natural” or rather in-the-key, > non-accidental, notes. Like a diatonic-staff version of Reed’s Twinline: > http://musicnotation.org/sy

Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

Wow. Clairnote looks like an incredibly stupid idea, and a grand disservice to any poor child who you teach to read it. Simplified notation is not a lot better. Unless they spend their lives playing on their own at home, musicians have eventually to play with other people who will have learnt a m

Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

music, require relearning how to read music, make transposition harder. So what's the point? Sharon -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/simplifying-chromatic-scale-notation-tp186415p186445.html Sent from the U

Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

On 26 January 2016 at 12:06, Sharon Rosner wrote: > > But seriously, I see no reason to change a system which works so well for > so > many different kinds of music. All these alternative systems, I don't see > what advantage they offer. On the contrary, there are many downsides - > they're unsui

Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

On 26 January 2016 at 12:25, musicus wrote: > *"1. I like to know where exactly I am at a given time."* > > Of course there are always some "key positions", which can help to > organize yourself while playing (or remembering/ learning etc.). > Nevertheless I do think that it is important to reduc

Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

Dear Sharon, "This last bit made me laugh out loud. Well I guess some musicians do not really feel like focusing on every single note. The good ones do though." I'd like to contradict on this one. Of course a good musician needs to focus on every detail, but only the "bad" ones neglect the

Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

Chris Yate writes: > Wow. Clairnote looks like an incredibly stupid idea, and a grand > disservice to any poor child who you teach to read it. Simplified > notation is not a lot better. > > Unless they spend their lives playing on their own at home, musicians > have eventually to play with other

Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

Sharon Rosner writes: > But seriously, I see no reason to change a system which works so well > for so many different kinds of music. All these alternative systems, I > don't see what advantage they offer. On the contrary, there are many > downsides - they're unsuitable for keyboards, Piano keyb

Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

an > chromatic scale, IMO. So what *is* the right thing? The first and last notes? :-) Sharon -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/simplifying-chromatic-scale-notation-tp186415p186452.html Sent from the User

Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

c scale with - starting and ending pitch - immediate recognition of exceptions to the pattern (i.e. whole steps) Urs > Sharon > > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/simplifying-chromatic-sca

Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

clef and key signature. See also the practice of Chiavette or chiavi transportate - transposition clefs. And, this works for both transposing by a semitone or by a fifth. Sharon -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/simplifying-chromatic-scale-notation-tp186

Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

Hi Sharon, > I see no reason to change a system which works so well for so > many different kinds of music. All these alternative systems, I don't see > what advantage they offer. On the contrary, there are many downsides - > they're unsuitable for keyboards, unsuitable for tonal music, unsuitable

Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

Hi musicus, > Of course a good musician needs to focus on every detail, but only the "bad" > ones neglect the bigger context. The key is to focus on the "right" thing, > which is in many cases NOT every single note of an chromatic scale, IMO. I agree, 100%. > It was never my intention to quest

Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

Kieren MacMillan writes: > Hi musicus, > >> Of course a good musician needs to focus on every detail, but only >> the "bad" ones neglect the bigger context. The key is to focus on >> the "right" thing, which is in many cases NOT every single note of >> an chromatic scale, IMO. > > I agree, 100%.

Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

> On Jan 26, 2016, at 5:35 AM, Chris Yate wrote: > > BTW, is there a standard term for non-accidental notes? You would think it > would be “natural notes” but sometimes natural notes are also accidental > notes. > > In a chromatic scale, what are the accidental notes? They're certainly NOT >

Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

Am 26.01.2016 um 16:58 schrieb Paul Morris: >> On Jan 26, 2016, at 5:35 AM, Chris Yate > > wrote: >> >> BTW, is there a standard term for non-accidental notes? You >> would think it would be “natural notes” but sometimes natural >> notes are also accidenta

Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

> On Jan 26, 2016, at 4:35 AM, David Kastrup wrote: > > CBA player here. The problem I see is more one that such "even > notation" doesn't match well with our standard tonalities. Play a C > major scale. Now do an accompaniment in "Küchenmädchenterzen", namely > just play the same melody a thi

Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

> On Jan 26, 2016, at 5:40 AM, Chris Yate wrote: > > Unless they spend their lives playing on their own at home, musicians have > eventually to play with other people who will have learnt a method of > notation that's been good for 400 years. Yikes, it’s not that grim. One can always: 1. Lea

Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

> On Jan 26, 2016, at 7:35 AM, Chris Yate wrote: > > As it is, when I mark up confusing music I sometimes use an upside-down "V" > to indicate semitones, "=" to indicate 'same note' and a square bracket (like > upside down "|__|") between notes to indicate a tone. This is occasionally > useful

Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

> On Jan 26, 2016, at 7:45 AM, David Kastrup wrote: > > Sharon Rosner writes: > >> But seriously, I see no reason to change a system which works so well >> for so many different kinds of music. All these alternative systems, I >> don't see what advantage they offer. On the contrary, there are m

Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

On 26 January 2016 at 16:02, Paul Morris wrote: > On Jan 26, 2016, at 7:35 AM, Chris Yate wrote: > > As it is, when I mark up confusing music I sometimes use an upside-down > "V" to indicate semitones, "=" to indicate 'same note' and a square bracket > (like upside down "|__|") between notes to

Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

> On Jan 26, 2016, at 8:18 AM, Sharon Rosner wrote: > > Of all alternative systems discussed on this thread, the only one which is > really appropriate for transposition is the "Lines a Whole Step Apart" > system (http://musicnotation.org/systems/gallery/). There it is just a > matter of moving t

Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

Hi all, >> I don’t know that there's any term that’s the complement to “accidental >> notes” (besides writing out “notes in the key”). Most people I know use “diatonic” — though it’s inaccurate a lot of the time. What about “signatured”? =) Best, Kieren. Kie

Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

Kieren MacMillan writes: > Hi all, > >>> I don’t know that there's any term that’s the complement to > “accidental notes” (besides writing out “notes in the key”). > > Most people I know use “diatonic” — though it’s inaccurate a lot of the time. > > What about “signatured”? =) "in-key"? -- Da

Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

> On Jan 26, 2016, at 4:49 AM, musicus wrote: > > I really admire the effort and courage of alternative notation systems, but I > cannot see a reasonable improvement in this case. I don't think it's a good > idea to remove all great advantages, which our standard notation system has. > IMO, th

Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

usicians that are handicapped. Sharon -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/simplifying-chromatic-scale-notation-tp186415p186483.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

2016-01-26 13:40 GMT+01:00 David Kastrup : > Chris Yate writes: > >> Wow. Clairnote looks like an incredibly stupid idea, and a grand >> disservice to any poor child who you teach to read it. Simplified >> notation is not a lot better. >> >> Unless they spend their lives playing on their own at h

Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

clear but one can guess that tablature was a fast way of writing music at the keyboard - no need for drawing staves and a each note requires a single stroke, instead of drawing note heads, stems, beams etc. It is also very economical for homophonic music. Sharon -- View this mes

Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

> On 26 Jan 2016, at 18:01, Sharon Rosner wrote: > So you see, it's quite a straight-forward a technique. Yes, accidental > translation can be tricky, but with practice it becomes second nature. And > again, 300 years ago it was considered a basic skill for any musician worth > his salt, it's ju

Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

> On 26 Jan 2016, at 18:01, Sharon Rosner wrote: > So you see, it's quite a straight-forward a technique. Yes, accidental > translation can be tricky, but with practice it becomes second nature. And > again, 300 years ago it was considered a basic skill for any musician worth > his salt, it's ju

Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

> On Jan 26, 2016, at 11:24 AM, David Kastrup wrote: > > "in-key"? Hmmm, yeah, that works and is clear. I think I’ll start using that. Thanks, -Paul ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-

Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

> On Jan 26, 2016, at 12:01 PM, Sharon Rosner wrote: > > So you see, it's quite a straight-forward a technique. Yes, accidental > translation can be tricky, but with practice it becomes second nature. And > again, 300 years ago it was considered a basic skill for any musician worth > his salt, it

Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

> On Jan 26, 2016, at 11:12 AM, Chris Yate wrote: > > Yes, you're probably right. > > Though whatever you choose would have to be: > > 1) equally easy to read in all keys (which is demonstrably NOT the case for > traditional notation) > 2) easy to manage when key changes > 3) make it easy to

Re[2]: simplifying chromatic scale notation

I suggest you try this on "Entry of the Gladiators" by Fučik. The lines will look very straightforward, but I suspect performers, particularly on "continuous" instruments like voice, theremin or trombone(?) would lose track of the tonality exactly because of that. -- David Kastrup Maybe the