On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 15:04:16 +0100
Benny Amorsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It is a bit of a mystery why the kernel is ordering me to initialize
> the current offset of xfs_file_readdir though. I don't know how to do
> that, so I guess it's lucky that I don't use XFS. Who knows what would
>
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Lennart Sorensen) writes:
> On Fri, Dec 21, 2007 at 12:55:16PM +0100, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
>> o_O I better continue believing it is the subject. Because with
>> one extra word at the front, you can make this a "complete sentence":
>>
>> Please initialize [the] current
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Lennart Sorensen) writes:
On Fri, Dec 21, 2007 at 12:55:16PM +0100, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
o_O I better continue believing it is the subject. Because with
one extra word at the front, you can make this a complete sentence:
Please initialize [the] current offset in
On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 15:04:16 +0100
Benny Amorsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It is a bit of a mystery why the kernel is ordering me to initialize
the current offset of xfs_file_readdir though. I don't know how to do
that, so I guess it's lucky that I don't use XFS. Who knows what would
happen if
On Fri, Dec 21, 2007 at 12:55:16PM +0100, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
> o_O I better continue believing it is the subject. Because with
> one extra word at the front, you can make this a "complete sentence":
>
> Please initialize [the] current offset in xfs_file_readdir.
That still looks like
On Thu, Dec 20, 2007 at 01:43:04PM -0800, Joe Perches wrote:
> Documentation/Coding Style
>
> Chapter 13: Printing kernel messages
>
> Kernel messages do not have to be terminated with a period.
'do not have to' does not mean 'should not'. So the suggested patch
is wrong no
David Miller wrote:
From: David Newall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 00:13:07 +1030
David Miller wrote:
From: Jan Engelhardt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 11:10:38 +0100 (CET)
Can we get back to programming?
With respect to the vast majority
Jan Engelhardt wrote:
> On Dec 21 2007 17:56, Herbert Xu wrote:
>>As to what is a complete sentence, that is debatable. However,
>>typically it would include a subject and a predicate. By this
>>rule the following line is not a complete sentence:
>>
>> [XFS] Initialise current offset in
From: David Newall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 00:13:07 +1030
> David Miller wrote:
> > From: Jan Engelhardt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 11:10:38 +0100 (CET)
> >
> >> Can we get back to programming?
>
> With respect to the vast majority of log messages,
David Miller wrote:
From: Jan Engelhardt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 11:10:38 +0100 (CET)
Can we get back to programming?
With respect to the vast majority of log messages, nobody confounded by
punctuation is truly trying to analyze a problem!
--
To unsubscribe from this
Jan Engelhardt wrote:
> On Dec 21 2007 17:56, Herbert Xu wrote:
> >>
> >> I do not believe "opinions" are relevant here. Relevant would be cites
> >> from respected style guides (Fowlers, Oxford Guide To Style et al.) to
> >> show they do not need a full stop.
> >>
> >> I've not found one, but I
On Dec 21 2007 19:41, Herbert Xu wrote:
>On Fri, Dec 21, 2007 at 11:10:38AM +0100, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
>>
>> >[XFS] Initialise current offset in xfs_file_readdir correctly
>> >
>> >The reason is that it lacks a subject.
>>
>> "current offset" is your subject.
>
>In my school we were taught
On Fri, Dec 21, 2007 at 11:10:38AM +0100, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
>
> > [XFS] Initialise current offset in xfs_file_readdir correctly
> >
> >The reason is that it lacks a subject.
>
> "current offset" is your subject.
In my school we were taught that "current offset" is part of the
predicate
> I'm afraid that I completely and utterly disagree. Kernel messages are _not_
> sentences. The vast majority is not well-formed and does not contain any of
> the elements that are required for a proper sentence.
This wants fixing.
> The most kernel messages can be compared to is a rather
On Dec 20 2007 18:15, Andrew Morton wrote:
>
>No-period is a kernel idiom, produces perfectly readable output, I have
>never ever heard of anyone expressing the least concern over a lack of dots
>at the end of their printks and 91% of kernel code agrees.
Let's check out some real-world messages,
From: Jan Engelhardt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 11:10:38 +0100 (CET)
> Can we get back to programming?
Well, the kernel log messages are programs, the kind that are for
humans trying to analyze a problem.
--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel"
On Dec 21 2007 17:56, Herbert Xu wrote:
>>
>> I do not believe "opinions" are relevant here. Relevant would be cites
>> from respected style guides (Fowlers, Oxford Guide To Style et al.) to
>> show they do not need a full stop.
>>
>> I've not found one, but I am open to references.
>
>Well
Alan Cox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I do not believe "opinions" are relevant here. Relevant would be cites
> from respected style guides (Fowlers, Oxford Guide To Style et al.) to
> show they do not need a full stop.
>
> I've not found one, but I am open to references.
Well from where I
Alan Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I do not believe opinions are relevant here. Relevant would be cites
from respected style guides (Fowlers, Oxford Guide To Style et al.) to
show they do not need a full stop.
I've not found one, but I am open to references.
Well from where I come from,
From: Jan Engelhardt [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 11:10:38 +0100 (CET)
Can we get back to programming?
Well, the kernel log messages are programs, the kind that are for
humans trying to analyze a problem.
--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in
On Dec 20 2007 18:15, Andrew Morton wrote:
No-period is a kernel idiom, produces perfectly readable output, I have
never ever heard of anyone expressing the least concern over a lack of dots
at the end of their printks and 91% of kernel code agrees.
Let's check out some real-world messages,
On Dec 21 2007 17:56, Herbert Xu wrote:
I do not believe opinions are relevant here. Relevant would be cites
from respected style guides (Fowlers, Oxford Guide To Style et al.) to
show they do not need a full stop.
I've not found one, but I am open to references.
Well from where I come
I'm afraid that I completely and utterly disagree. Kernel messages are _not_
sentences. The vast majority is not well-formed and does not contain any of
the elements that are required for a proper sentence.
This wants fixing.
The most kernel messages can be compared to is a rather diverse
On Fri, Dec 21, 2007 at 11:10:38AM +0100, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
[XFS] Initialise current offset in xfs_file_readdir correctly
The reason is that it lacks a subject.
current offset is your subject.
In my school we were taught that current offset is part of the
predicate as opposed to
On Dec 21 2007 19:41, Herbert Xu wrote:
On Fri, Dec 21, 2007 at 11:10:38AM +0100, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
[XFS] Initialise current offset in xfs_file_readdir correctly
The reason is that it lacks a subject.
current offset is your subject.
In my school we were taught that current offset
Jan Engelhardt wrote:
On Dec 21 2007 17:56, Herbert Xu wrote:
I do not believe opinions are relevant here. Relevant would be cites
from respected style guides (Fowlers, Oxford Guide To Style et al.) to
show they do not need a full stop.
I've not found one, but I am open to
David Miller wrote:
From: Jan Engelhardt [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 11:10:38 +0100 (CET)
Can we get back to programming?
With respect to the vast majority of log messages, nobody confounded by
punctuation is truly trying to analyze a problem!
--
To unsubscribe from this
From: David Newall [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 00:13:07 +1030
David Miller wrote:
From: Jan Engelhardt [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 11:10:38 +0100 (CET)
Can we get back to programming?
With respect to the vast majority of log messages, nobody confounded by
Jan Engelhardt wrote:
On Dec 21 2007 17:56, Herbert Xu wrote:
As to what is a complete sentence, that is debatable. However,
typically it would include a subject and a predicate. By this
rule the following line is not a complete sentence:
[XFS] Initialise current offset in
On Fri, Dec 21, 2007 at 12:55:16PM +0100, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
o_O I better continue believing it is the subject. Because with
one extra word at the front, you can make this a complete sentence:
Please initialize [the] current offset in xfs_file_readdir.
That still looks like an
On Thu, Dec 20, 2007 at 01:43:04PM -0800, Joe Perches wrote:
Documentation/Coding Style
Chapter 13: Printing kernel messages
Kernel messages do not have to be terminated with a period.
'do not have to' does not mean 'should not'. So the suggested patch
is wrong no matter
David Miller wrote:
From: David Newall [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 00:13:07 +1030
David Miller wrote:
From: Jan Engelhardt [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 11:10:38 +0100 (CET)
Can we get back to programming?
With respect to the vast majority of
From: Andrew Morton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:15:32 -0800
> No-period is a kernel idiom, produces perfectly readable output, I have
> never ever heard of anyone expressing the least concern over a lack of dots
> at the end of their printks and 91% of kernel code agrees.
I
On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 02:43:33 +0100 Frans Pop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thursday 20 December 2007, Alan Cox wrote:
> > The kernel printk messages are sentences.
>
> I'm afraid that I completely and utterly disagree. Kernel messages are _not_
> sentences. The vast majority is not
On Thursday 20 December 2007, Alan Cox wrote:
> The kernel printk messages are sentences.
I'm afraid that I completely and utterly disagree. Kernel messages are _not_
sentences. The vast majority is not well-formed and does not contain any of
the elements that are required for a proper
On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 16:04:10 -0800
Joe Perches <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, 2007-12-20 at 22:08 +, Alan Cox wrote:
> > I do not believe "opinions" are relevant here. Relevant would be cites
> > from respected style guides (Fowlers, Oxford Guide To Style et al.) to
> > show they do not
> Um, what? Kernel messages are *not* in English.
>
> Take a look at a machine after it is freshly booted. The following
> messages are *not* English:
>
> [0.00] BIOS-provided physical RAM map:
> [0.00] BIOS-e820: - 00099800 (usable)
> [0.00]
On Thu, 2007-12-20 at 22:08 +, Alan Cox wrote:
> I do not believe "opinions" are relevant here. Relevant would be cites
> from respected style guides (Fowlers, Oxford Guide To Style et al.) to
> show they do not need a full stop.
> I've not found one, but I am open to references.
What
> For the record, I won't be taking any "add period to printk" patches.
> akpm:/usr/src/linux-2.6.24-rc5> grep -r '[^\.]\\n"' net | wc -l
> 4978
> akpm:/usr/src/linux-2.6.24-rc5> grep -r '[\.]\\n"' net | wc -l
> 493
>
> Send 'em to Dave!
I was assuming they would go to the trivial patches
On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 22:08:53 +, Alan Cox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I believe though that printk messages are not sentences but are
> > logging statements. Statements do not require full-stops.
> >
> > Opinions, of course, vary.
>
> I do not believe "opinions" are relevant here.
On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 14:19:28 -0800 Andrew Morton wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 21:54:11 +
> Alan Cox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > Documentation/Coding Style
> > >
> > > Chapter 13: Printing kernel messages
> > >
> > > Kernel messages do not have to be terminated with a
On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 21:54:11 +
Alan Cox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Documentation/Coding Style
> >
> > Chapter 13: Printing kernel messages
> >
> > Kernel messages do not have to be terminated with a period.
>
>
> This piece of the document is wrong. It should also be
On Thu, Dec 20, 2007 at 09:54:11PM +, Alan Cox wrote:
> > Kernel messages do not have to be terminated with a period.
>
> This piece of the document is wrong. It should also be changed. I've no
> idea how such a ludicrous statement ever got into the Coding Style but I
> have never seen it
> I believe though that printk messages are not sentences but are
> logging statements. Statements do not require full-stops.
>
> Opinions, of course, vary.
I do not believe "opinions" are relevant here. Relevant would be cites
from respected style guides (Fowlers, Oxford Guide To Style et al.)
> I think the incorrect grammar and lack of proper capitalization and
> puntuation in the kernel messages and our changelog entries is totally
> embarassing for a professional software project.
But I guess correct grammar and spelling in our mailing list
communication is not important to you
On Thu, 2007-12-20 at 13:51 -0800, David Miller wrote:
> > The kernel printk messages are sentences. English language sentences end
> > with a full stop. They are messages printed up for normal human beings to
> > read and they should therefore be properly written.
> I totally agree.
> I think the
> Documentation/Coding Style
>
> Chapter 13: Printing kernel messages
>
> Kernel messages do not have to be terminated with a period.
This piece of the document is wrong. It should also be changed. I've no
idea how such a ludicrous statement ever got into the Coding Style but I
From: Alan Cox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 21:07:41 +
> The kernel printk messages are sentences. English language sentences end
> with a full stop. They are messages printed up for normal human beings to
> read and they should therefore be properly written.
I totally agree.
On Thu, 2007-12-20 at 21:07 +, Alan Cox wrote:
> > I missed the context on this one. So this is checking for periods at
> > the end of messages for printk's. We would need something a little
> > cleverer to ensure we are only checking the contents of the string. But
> > eminently doable.
>
> I missed the context on this one. So this is checking for periods at
> the end of messages for printk's. We would need something a little
> cleverer to ensure we are only checking the contents of the string. But
> eminently doable.
>
> /me plays
>
> Ok, yes this seems ok. Have added it for
On Thu, Nov 29, 2007 at 06:35:28PM -0800, Joe Perches wrote:
> On Fri, 2007-11-30 at 09:54 +0800, Li Zefan wrote:
> > So it doesn't deserve the effort to eliminate these periods, isn't it?
>
> I hope these will eventually disappear.
>
> > Or we can add a check to checkpatch.pl to prevent new
On Thu, Nov 29, 2007 at 06:35:28PM -0800, Joe Perches wrote:
On Fri, 2007-11-30 at 09:54 +0800, Li Zefan wrote:
So it doesn't deserve the effort to eliminate these periods, isn't it?
I hope these will eventually disappear.
Or we can add a check to checkpatch.pl to prevent new ones.
I missed the context on this one. So this is checking for periods at
the end of messages for printk's. We would need something a little
cleverer to ensure we are only checking the contents of the string. But
eminently doable.
/me plays
Ok, yes this seems ok. Have added it for 0.13.
On Thu, 2007-12-20 at 21:07 +, Alan Cox wrote:
I missed the context on this one. So this is checking for periods at
the end of messages for printk's. We would need something a little
cleverer to ensure we are only checking the contents of the string. But
eminently doable.
/me
From: Alan Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 21:07:41 +
The kernel printk messages are sentences. English language sentences end
with a full stop. They are messages printed up for normal human beings to
read and they should therefore be properly written.
I totally agree.
I
Documentation/Coding Style
Chapter 13: Printing kernel messages
Kernel messages do not have to be terminated with a period.
This piece of the document is wrong. It should also be changed. I've no
idea how such a ludicrous statement ever got into the Coding Style but I
have
On Thu, 2007-12-20 at 13:51 -0800, David Miller wrote:
The kernel printk messages are sentences. English language sentences end
with a full stop. They are messages printed up for normal human beings to
read and they should therefore be properly written.
I totally agree.
I think the
I think the incorrect grammar and lack of proper capitalization and
puntuation in the kernel messages and our changelog entries is totally
embarassing for a professional software project.
But I guess correct grammar and spelling in our mailing list
communication is not important to you ;)
I believe though that printk messages are not sentences but are
logging statements. Statements do not require full-stops.
Opinions, of course, vary.
I do not believe opinions are relevant here. Relevant would be cites
from respected style guides (Fowlers, Oxford Guide To Style et al.) to
On Thu, Dec 20, 2007 at 09:54:11PM +, Alan Cox wrote:
Kernel messages do not have to be terminated with a period.
This piece of the document is wrong. It should also be changed. I've no
idea how such a ludicrous statement ever got into the Coding Style but I
have never seen it discussed
On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 21:54:11 +
Alan Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Documentation/Coding Style
Chapter 13: Printing kernel messages
Kernel messages do not have to be terminated with a period.
This piece of the document is wrong. It should also be changed. I've no
On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 14:19:28 -0800 Andrew Morton wrote:
On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 21:54:11 +
Alan Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Documentation/Coding Style
Chapter 13: Printing kernel messages
Kernel messages do not have to be terminated with a period.
This
On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 22:08:53 +, Alan Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I believe though that printk messages are not sentences but are
logging statements. Statements do not require full-stops.
Opinions, of course, vary.
I do not believe opinions are relevant here. Relevant would be
For the record, I won't be taking any add period to printk patches.
akpm:/usr/src/linux-2.6.24-rc5 grep -r '[^\.]\\n' net | wc -l
4978
akpm:/usr/src/linux-2.6.24-rc5 grep -r '[\.]\\n' net | wc -l
493
Send 'em to Dave!
I was assuming they would go to the trivial patches maintainer,
On Thu, 2007-12-20 at 22:08 +, Alan Cox wrote:
I do not believe opinions are relevant here. Relevant would be cites
from respected style guides (Fowlers, Oxford Guide To Style et al.) to
show they do not need a full stop.
I've not found one, but I am open to references.
What exactly is a
Um, what? Kernel messages are *not* in English.
Take a look at a machine after it is freshly booted. The following
messages are *not* English:
[0.00] BIOS-provided physical RAM map:
[0.00] BIOS-e820: - 00099800 (usable)
[0.00]
On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 16:04:10 -0800
Joe Perches [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Thu, 2007-12-20 at 22:08 +, Alan Cox wrote:
I do not believe opinions are relevant here. Relevant would be cites
from respected style guides (Fowlers, Oxford Guide To Style et al.) to
show they do not need a
On Thursday 20 December 2007, Alan Cox wrote:
The kernel printk messages are sentences.
I'm afraid that I completely and utterly disagree. Kernel messages are _not_
sentences. The vast majority is not well-formed and does not contain any of
the elements that are required for a proper sentence.
On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 02:43:33 +0100 Frans Pop [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Thursday 20 December 2007, Alan Cox wrote:
The kernel printk messages are sentences.
I'm afraid that I completely and utterly disagree. Kernel messages are _not_
sentences. The vast majority is not well-formed and
From: Andrew Morton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:15:32 -0800
No-period is a kernel idiom, produces perfectly readable output, I have
never ever heard of anyone expressing the least concern over a lack of dots
at the end of their printks and 91% of kernel code agrees.
I have
On Fri, 2007-11-30 at 09:54 +0800, Li Zefan wrote:
> So it doesn't deserve the effort to eliminate these periods, isn't it?
I hope these will eventually disappear.
> Or we can add a check to checkpatch.pl to prevent new ones.
Perhaps that's a good idea.
diff --git a/scripts/checkpatch.pl
Joe Perches wrote:
> On Fri, 2007-11-30 at 09:12 +0800, Li Zefan wrote:
>> Just a roughly grep:
>> # grep -r -P --include=*.[ch] 'printk.*\.\\n' * | wc -l
>> 6025
>> # grep -r -P --include=*.[ch] '\.\\n' * | wc -l
>> 12723
>
> Inequivalent.
>
> Try:
> grep -rP --include=*.[ch]
On Fri, 2007-11-30 at 09:12 +0800, Li Zefan wrote:
> Just a roughly grep:
> # grep -r -P --include=*.[ch] 'printk.*\.\\n' * | wc -l
> 6025
> # grep -r -P --include=*.[ch] '\.\\n' * | wc -l
> 12723
Inequivalent.
Try:
grep -rP --include=*.[ch] 'printk.*\.\\n' * | wc -l
and
grep -rp
Andrew Morton wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 11:20:18 +0100 Frans Pop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Well, for one it needlessly increases the size of log files.
>> It also IMO just looks weird to have a trailing period only for some
>> messages and it certainly is completely inappropriate for
On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 11:20:18 +0100 Frans Pop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Well, for one it needlessly increases the size of log files.
> It also IMO just looks weird to have a trailing period only for some
> messages and it certainly is completely inappropriate for messages like:
I'll confess
On Thursday 29 November 2007, Li Zefan wrote:
> Frans Pop wrote:
> > Li Zefan wrote:
> >> Add a missing '.' in prink information.
> >> - printk(" no tick device\n");
> >> + printk(" no tick device.\n");
> >
> > I wonder if that is correct. CodingStyle says:
> >
On Thursday 29 November 2007, Li Zefan wrote:
Frans Pop wrote:
Li Zefan wrote:
Add a missing '.' in prink information.
- printk( no tick device\n);
+ printk( no tick device.\n);
I wonder if that is correct. CodingStyle says:
Chapter
On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 11:20:18 +0100 Frans Pop [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well, for one it needlessly increases the size of log files.
It also IMO just looks weird to have a trailing period only for some
messages and it certainly is completely inappropriate for messages like:
I'll confess to
Andrew Morton wrote:
On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 11:20:18 +0100 Frans Pop [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well, for one it needlessly increases the size of log files.
It also IMO just looks weird to have a trailing period only for some
messages and it certainly is completely inappropriate for messages
On Fri, 2007-11-30 at 09:12 +0800, Li Zefan wrote:
Just a roughly grep:
# grep -r -P --include=*.[ch] 'printk.*\.\\n' * | wc -l
6025
# grep -r -P --include=*.[ch] '\.\\n' * | wc -l
12723
Inequivalent.
Try:
grep -rP --include=*.[ch] 'printk.*\.\\n' * | wc -l
and
grep -rp
On Fri, 2007-11-30 at 09:54 +0800, Li Zefan wrote:
So it doesn't deserve the effort to eliminate these periods, isn't it?
I hope these will eventually disappear.
Or we can add a check to checkpatch.pl to prevent new ones.
Perhaps that's a good idea.
diff --git a/scripts/checkpatch.pl
Joe Perches wrote:
On Fri, 2007-11-30 at 09:12 +0800, Li Zefan wrote:
Just a roughly grep:
# grep -r -P --include=*.[ch] 'printk.*\.\\n' * | wc -l
6025
# grep -r -P --include=*.[ch] '\.\\n' * | wc -l
12723
Inequivalent.
Try:
grep -rP --include=*.[ch] 'printk.*\.\\n' * | wc -l
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