On Sun, 17 Aug 2003, SONE Takeshi wrote:
> PCI spec requires System BIOS to provide Bus/Dev/Fn of the device
BTW I am assuming the format is
(bus << 8) | devfn, correct?
ron
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On Sun, 17 Aug 2003, SONE Takeshi wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 11, 2003 at 05:21:06PM -0600, ron minnich wrote:
> > On Mon, 11 Aug 2003, YhLu wrote:
> > > I try to move the vgabios to freebios2 for 2880. I put the BIOS option rom
> > > to 0xfff8c000, ( the second 48k).
> > Looks, however, looke tehre is a
On 17 Aug 2003, Eric W. Biederman wrote:
> Does a version of ADLO that runs as 32bit C code sound reasonable?
it sounds interesting, I'll look at this too.
I'm back sporadically now until tuesday, back then for real.
2000 messages to dig through.
ron
_
On Sun, Aug 17, 2003 at 12:30:49PM -0600, Eric W. Biederman wrote:
> Looking at the various specifications there is an additional route
> we can take. We can have the 16bit trampoline detect if it is running
> in v86 mode, and if so use the appropriate DPMI/VCPI/XMS functions to
> switch to protec
On Tue, Aug 12, 2003 at 04:27:46PM +0200, Stefan Reinauer wrote:
> > The BIOS support code is tiny -- I'm not surprised at 20k.
> But that 20k is all you ever need on x86 machines.
I looked at the x86emu but int.c only contains PCI services
and some other little functions. This is pretty much like
Stefan Reinauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> * ron minnich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [030812 15:33]:
> > On Tue, 12 Aug 2003, Stefan Reinauer wrote:
> >
> > I'm not so sure. The emulation code supports the INT functions needed for
> > vga setup. I would actually be inclined to dump ADLO rombios.c com
On Sun, 17 Aug 2003, SONE Takeshi wrote:
> And, vgabios.c doesn't do that.
gee, I thought I had it doing that. I will try to fix this when I get
back.
ron
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On Mon, Aug 11, 2003 at 05:21:06PM -0600, ron minnich wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Aug 2003, YhLu wrote:
> > I try to move the vgabios to freebios2 for 2880. I put the BIOS option rom
> > to 0xfff8c000, ( the second 48k).
>
> ah, well, we shouldn't really do that until we resolve the VGA bios
> question.
On Fri, 8 Aug 2003, SONE Takeshi wrote:
> I guess, in this direction of development, you will most certainly
> have to implement more legacy BIOS services (realmode INTxx).
>
> And, once SCSI BIOS worked, you automatically get INT13
> (disk services) because SCSI BIOS hooks it.
> You already hav
On Fri, Aug 08, 2003 at 10:51:23AM -0600, Eric W. Biederman wrote:
> > Now if we want to have a way to choose seperate ELF payloads or direct
> > linking them in at build time, that makes lots of sense to me. We can try
> > to look at that.
>
> I am not certain about multiple payloads.
I've
Adam Agnew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Fri, 8 Aug 2003, SONE Takeshi wrote:
>
> > I guess, in this direction of development, you will most certainly
> > have to implement more legacy BIOS services (realmode INTxx).
> >
> > And, once SCSI BIOS worked, you automatically get INT13
> > (disk ser
On Sat, 9 Aug 2003, SONE Takeshi wrote:
> Then it's convenient to have a few more INTs and generic PCI ROM
> enabling routine to enable the SCSI adapter. That code would be
> simple and small anyway.
It doesn't bother me. I am fine with it. I believe that the VGA BIOS
support can be used for thi
On Fri, 8 Aug 2003, Adam Agnew wrote:
for example;
> linuxBIOS ->
> VGA Search and Init ROM ELF
with its own printk, etc?
> <- Back to linuxBIOS
> linuxBIOS ->
with its own printk, etc?
> Polled IDE & File Systems Support ELF
> Success:
> -> Linux
ron minnich wrote:
Where did the VGABIOS code come from (the binary thing we are talking
about)?
which one.
The point was, is it a proprietary BIOS from a mfr of the
video/motherboard? I got the impression we were talking of copying a
binary into the project, and wanted to know if it was a co
On Mon, 11 Aug 2003, ron minnich wrote:
> For linuxbios to succeed in future, we'll need support for these two
> things. I think this is a lamentable state of affairs. But that's how it
> is.
>
> I think long-term the best way to fix it for all architectures is via
> emulation, but for the imme
On Mon, 11 Aug 2003, Steve Gehlbach wrote:
> Where did the VGABIOS code come from (the binary thing we are talking
> about)?
??
which one.
ron
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On Tue, 12 Aug 2003, Stefan Reinauer wrote:
> Emulation and ADLO go hand in hand I think. There are 2 different
> problems to be addressed:
I'm not so sure. The emulation code supports the INT functions needed for
vga setup. I would actually be inclined to dump ADLO rombios.c completely
and rep
PROTECTED]
主题: Re: Supporting extension ROMs and beyond...
ron minnich wrote:
>Fair use says, I think, that you can copy a bios from your machine to your
>machine for personal use. Certainly that's what you do when you load a new
>bios image from a web site. You can't distribute i
ron minnich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Mon, 11 Aug 2003, ron minnich wrote:
>
> > For linuxbios to succeed in future, we'll need support for these two
> > things. I think this is a lamentable state of affairs. But that's how it
> > is.
> >
> > I think long-term the best way to fix it for
Ron,
If I only want to use addon AGP Display adapter ROM, I don't need to use
VGABIOS? How about PCIBIOS?
Regards
YH.
-邮件原件-
发件人: SONE Takeshi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
发送时间: 2003年8月9日 10:55
收件人: ron minnich
抄送: YhLu; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
主题: Re: Supporting extension ROMs and b
TED]
发送时间: 2003年8月11日 10:07
收件人: YhLu
抄送: SONE Takeshi; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
主题: re: Supporting extension ROMs and beyond...
On Mon, 11 Aug 2003, YhLu wrote:
> If I only want to use addon AGP Display adapter ROM, I don't need to use
> VGABIOS? How about PCIBIOS?
does the rom need pcibio
Ollie can't we use the x86 emulator + bios support?
I am sympathetic to Eric's concerns about callbacks, in spite of my having
written callback support into the vgabios for linuxbios. It's so easy to
lose control of that vgabios off running on its own. It seems like the
emulator would let us k
* ron minnich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [030812 17:40]:
> > I agree, but it is still a really big step forward. When you want video
> > support, you either have network or a disk or a completely custom
> > application without linux anyways.
>
> yes. Do you think we should test this as an ELF payload?
* Adam Sulmicki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [030812 04:39]:
>
> [apologies if it was mentioned before]
>
> Not sure if folks now about it,
> but there's this project.
>
> http://www.nongnu.org/vgabios/
>
> perhaps it would be usefull.
This is nice and useful for bochs and plex86, since they don'
* ron minnich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [030812 15:33]:
> On Tue, 12 Aug 2003, Stefan Reinauer wrote:
>
> I'm not so sure. The emulation code supports the INT functions needed for
> vga setup. I would actually be inclined to dump ADLO rombios.c completely
> and replace it with real C code.
which is
On Mon, 11 Aug 2003, YhLu wrote:
> I try to move the vgabios to freebios2 for 2880. I put the BIOS option rom
> to 0xfff8c000, ( the second 48k).
ah, well, we shouldn't really do that until we resolve the VGA bios
question.
Looks, however, looke tehre is a bug ... Takeshi can perhaps address i
well, 20K of full bios support answers one of Eric's objections ;-)
but we still need callbacks, right?
Still this is promising if emulator + bios gets to 53K, still rather
large, but interesting.
Stefan, do you plan to test this? anyone else?
ron
* ron minnich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [030812 01:21]:
> > I try to move the vgabios to freebios2 for 2880. I put the BIOS option rom
> > to 0xfff8c000, ( the second 48k).
>
> ah, well, we shouldn't really do that until we resolve the VGA bios
> question.
It sounds cleaner to work on a seperated ve
OS or
emulation?
Regards
YH
-邮件原件-
发件人: ron minnich [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
发送时间: 2003年8月11日 16:21
收件人: YhLu
抄送: SONE Takeshi; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
主题: Re: Supporting extension ROMs and beyond...
On Mon, 11 Aug 2003, YhLu wrote:
> I try to move the vgabios to freebios2 for 2880. I put
Adam Sulmicki wrote:
http://www.nongnu.org/vgabios/
Thanks, I hadn't seen this before, looks like a very nice implementation.
I believe on a quick read that it is implementing basic legacy mode VGA,
which we have in linuxbios. The problem always is, how to set the
bridge or card to the point
[apologies if it was mentioned before]
Not sure if folks now about it,
but there's this project.
http://www.nongnu.org/vgabios/
perhaps it would be usefull.
--
Adam Sulmicki
http://www.eax.com The Supreme Headquarters of the 32 bit registers
_
on minnich [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
发送时间: 2003年8月11日 8:59
收件人: Eric W. Biederman
抄送: SONE Takeshi; Stefan Reinauer; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
主题: Re: Supporting extension ROMs and beyond...
On Mon, 11 Aug 2003, ron minnich wrote:
> For linuxbios to succeed in future, we'll need support for these two
On Mon, 11 Aug 2003, YhLu wrote:
> If I only want to use addon AGP Display adapter ROM, I don't need to use
> VGABIOS? How about PCIBIOS?
does the rom need pcibios support? if so, you need both of these modules.
ron
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On Tue, 12 Aug 2003, ron minnich wrote:
> > compiling v86bios.vm86 from above I get everything into 20k.
not the emulator, surely. Just the bios support code, right?
Let's get our terms right.
BIOS support code -> the code in ADLO, or the linuxbios support code, that
provides BIOS sup
* SONE Takeshi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [030809 19:54]:
> I don't know about freebios2 tree, but in freebios tree there is
> some code to call POST routine of external VGA BIOS,
> and support for some realmode BIOS call (like PCI BIOS) to
> help the VGA BIOS run happily.
the code is currently only in
Andrew Ip <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Hi,
>
> > > I haven't seen the numbers on the dreaded size overhead. So
> > > that argument does not yet convince me. If I can fit a whole IP/UDP
> > > stack a network driver, and printk in 16K I have trouble seeing
> > > the problem.
> > multiply that by
On 8 Aug 2003, Eric W. Biederman wrote:
> Several bugs fixes later and we have put the Bochs BIOS into LinuxBIOS.
> Which doesn't work on anything but x86
I take your point, but is there any harm done if this is packaged as an
extension, not a part of the core? I just can't see the harm in i
On Mon, 11 Aug 2003, Steve Gehlbach wrote:
> I will someday get to more work on VGA disassembly, it is a hobby, some
> people play chess, I disassemble BIOSes.
we can't use that code, however, or some idiot will decide to sue.
we don't ever use code based on disassembly.
> So how many request
* ron minnich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [030812 16:06]:
> On Tue, 12 Aug 2003, ron minnich wrote:
>
> > > compiling v86bios.vm86 from above I get everything into 20k.
>
> not the emulator, surely. Just the bios support code, right?
yes.
> The x86 emulator need to support the needs of an expansion r
* SONE Takeshi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [030809 19:40]:
> On Fri, Aug 08, 2003 at 03:23:42PM -0600, ron minnich wrote:
> > Bochs is neat, but not simple. Maybe, however, we can make it simpler. I
> > really don't want to write x86 asm at this point, however. If I do this I
> > want to do it by building
On Fri, Aug 08, 2003 at 08:28:34AM -0600, ron minnich wrote:
> I agree that in some sense it is "cleaner" to have VGA support in some
> external binary blob, but it is far more convenient to have it right in
> linuxbios itself. It works today, so I can't see strong reasons not to
> continue usin
* ron minnich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [030812 15:39]:
> On Tue, 12 Aug 2003, Stefan Reinauer wrote:
> I wonder if my bug fixes ever made it in. They had some "issues" (well,
> bugs) with prefix 0x66 instruction parsing.
Don't know, but this version is from 2001. It also does not contain the
latest fi
On Tue, 12 Aug 2003, Stefan Reinauer wrote:
> I agree, but it is still a really big step forward. When you want video
> support, you either have network or a disk or a completely custom
> application without linux anyways.
yes. Do you think we should test this as an ELF payload?
ron
__
ron minnich wrote:
you missed the point. We will never copy a vga bios into the tree in any
place unless given permission.
Okay, I saw something about putting binaries into linuxbios, and made
the assumption...
-Steve
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ron minnich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Sat, 9 Aug 2003, SONE Takeshi wrote:
>
> > Then it's convenient to have a few more INTs and generic PCI ROM
> > enabling routine to enable the SCSI adapter. That code would be
> > simple and small anyway.
>
> It doesn't bother me. I am fine with it. I
ron minnich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> so, in the config file, we have something like:
>
> extension pcbios
> extension vgabios
> extension elfboot
>
> and the system linkes these in via src/extionsions/whatever.
>
> They are each run in turn.
>
> reasonable?
Not really.
I haven't seen th
ron minnich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I guess I have a hard time seeing the difference between linking functions
> into LB via the static device tree, and calling ELFs, except that you get
> no space savings with the ELF approach. You're going to create printk etc.
> functions in every sing
On Mon, 11 Aug 2003, Bari Ari wrote:
> Does this mean that VGABIOS would not work for boards that have
> integrated video and have the video BIOS combined into the system BIOS?
Currently, it means it won't work, but that is pretty straightforward to
fix.
ron
_
On Fri, Aug 08, 2003 at 03:23:42PM -0600, ron minnich wrote:
> Bochs is neat, but not simple. Maybe, however, we can make it simpler. I
> really don't want to write x86 asm at this point, however. If I do this I
> want to do it by building on the VGA BIOS stuff I wrote for 1.0.
That's what I'm int
On Sat, Aug 09, 2003 at 08:26:55PM +0200, Stefan Reinauer wrote:
> Extensions could be "stackable" and configurable for certain
> application goals:
> * legacy emulation for VGA and SCSI init
> * elf loader
> * openbios kernel
Something like splash image support could be in the extension.
I have o
;; "SONE Takeshi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Stefan Reinauer"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 7:41 AM
Subject: Re: Supporting extension ROMs and beyond...
> ron minnich wrote:
>
> >Fair use says, I think, that
At 6:04 PM -0600 10/8/03, ron minnich wrote:
so, in the config file, we have something like:
extension pcbios
extension vgabios
extension elfboot
and the system linkes these in via src/extionsions/whatever.
They are each run in turn.
reasonable?
Sounds good, but what does the 'extension' keywor
On 10 Aug 2003, Eric W. Biederman wrote:
> I haven't seen the numbers on the dreaded size overhead. So
> that argument does not yet convince me. If I can fit a whole IP/UDP
> stack a network driver, and printk in 16K I have trouble seeing
> the problem.
multiply that by, let's just say 4, for 4
so, in the config file, we have something like:
extension pcbios
extension vgabios
extension elfboot
and the system linkes these in via src/extionsions/whatever.
They are each run in turn.
reasonable?
ron
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* Stefan Reinauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [030812 12:36]:
> 1) x86 realmode code execution.
> 2) legacy api emulation/implementation (pcibios, etc)
>
> In my opinion writing the legacy emulation code (2) in C certainly makes
> sense, since it will run on all platforms by recompiling and it can be
>
Eric, I am sympathy with what you are saying. There is a reality here --
people want VGA and they want it on early. I want to accomodate this.
ron
There is always the direct register programming approach that we have
for the sis630 and stpc, but in the case of the sis630, vga is not
available
On Fri, 8 Aug 2003, SONE Takeshi wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 07, 2003 at 03:17:26PM -0600, Eric W. Biederman wrote:
> > However none of this will get into the core of LinuxBIOS, they will all be
> > separate ELF loadable components like etherboot.
> So, we need an external program that provides legacy BI
Hi,
> > I haven't seen the numbers on the dreaded size overhead. So
> > that argument does not yet convince me. If I can fit a whole IP/UDP
> > stack a network driver, and printk in 16K I have trouble seeing
> > the problem.
> multiply that by, let's just say 4, for 4 elf payloads for 4 function
Greetings,
One other call for modular binary support is end users. It's one thing to
get them to use a provided tool to flash in one of several mix and match
modules, it's quite a different matter to get them to actually compile
something correctly and then flash it.
An idea I have for baremetal
On Tue, 12 Aug 2003, Stefan Reinauer wrote:
> I looked at the official x86emu code at
> ftp://ftp.scitechsoft.com/devel/x86emu/x86emu-0.8.tar.gz
I wonder if my bug fixes ever made it in. They had some "issues" (well,
bugs) with prefix 0x66 instruction parsing.
hmm.
> This contains something p
ron minnich wrote:
we can't use that code, however, or some idiot will decide to sue.
we don't ever use code based on disassembly.
I understand, although they would lose the suit (Sony v. Connectix and
related cases), it is not the kind of trouble we need. Would that idiot
be named SCO?
I a
On Mon, 11 Aug 2003, Adam Sulmicki wrote:
> Not sure if folks now about it,
> but there's this project.
it's ok but it's overkill. All we want is to get vga into a state that
linux etc. can use it. That means only supporting PCIBIOS functions used
by VGA expansion roms for initialization. That in
On Mon, 11 Aug 2003, Steve Gehlbach wrote:
> The point was, is it a proprietary BIOS from a mfr of the
> video/motherboard? I got the impression we were talking of copying a
> binary into the project, and wanted to know if it was a copyrighted and
> proprietary work. Or did I miss the point?
ron minnich wrote:
Fair use says, I think, that you can copy a bios from your machine to your
machine for personal use. Certainly that's what you do when you load a new
bios image from a web site. You can't distribute it. So ADLO supports
getting the VGA bios out of your on-card bios and building
On Mon, 11 Aug 2003, YhLu wrote:
> I also find the freebios/util/vgabios. Is that you mean 16 VGABIOS or
> emulation?
that is the (fixed) x86 emulation code from the XFree86 tree.
ron
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On Mon, 11 Aug 2003, YhLu wrote:
> It should work with onboard one. You may put the option rom in the EEPROM
> and set the VGABIOS_START correctly.
oops, forgot, we do support that. I never tried it though.
ron
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On Fri, Aug 08, 2003 at 01:51:16PM -0600, Eric W. Biederman wrote:
> > Of couse the DOS applications like EMM386 and things like DPMI
> > won't run with a BIOS which does it's job in 32-bit.
> > And nowadays nobody uses those application.
>
> Dosemu which uses DPMI still has a surprising number o
Greetings,
I solved that for payloads built from the baremetal toolkit. They create a
simple data structure at the top of RAM with a signature in it so that the
first payload to run will know to set it up.
Each payload is expected to take what it needs from the top of available
memory and alter t
On Thu, 7 Aug 2003, Steve Gehlbach wrote:
> is disconcerting to see that linux is starting to use BIOS calls in some
> places, like power management stuff (AFAIR).
that's a big mistake ...
ron
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SONE Takeshi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Fri, Aug 08, 2003 at 10:51:23AM -0600, Eric W. Biederman wrote:
> > > Now if we want to have a way to choose seperate ELF payloads or direct
> > > linking them in at build time, that makes lots of sense to me. We can try
> > > to look at that.
> >
I guess I have a hard time seeing the difference between linking functions
into LB via the static device tree, and calling ELFs, except that you get
no space savings with the ELF approach. You're going to create printk etc.
functions in every single ELF image, and in fact you'll have a whole "BI
On Fri, Aug 08, 2003 at 02:29:08PM -0600, ron minnich wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Aug 2003, YhLu wrote:
>
> > Where is the VGA BIOS support? Still in freebios?
>
> it's the one that SONE used in linuxbios, he can describe again how it is
> enabled. We are using it here for NVidia cards.
I don't know abo
Ron,
Where is the VGA BIOS support? Still in freebios?
YH
-邮件原件-
发件人: ron minnich [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
发送时间: 2003年8月8日 12:42
收件人: SONE Takeshi
抄送: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
主题: Re: Supporting extension ROMs and beyond...
On Sat, 9 Aug 2003, SONE Takeshi wrote:
> Then it's conve
On Thu, Aug 07, 2003 at 03:17:26PM -0600, Eric W. Biederman wrote:
> Adam Agnew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > No one really wants LinuxBIOS to support legacy BIOS services. However,
> > the need for them keeps creeping in (I believe Ron plans to add int15 to
> > have better support for some vga r
On Fri, 8 Aug 2003, YhLu wrote:
> Where is the VGA BIOS support? Still in freebios?
it's the one that SONE used in linuxbios, he can describe again how it is
enabled. We are using it here for NVidia cards.
ron
p.s. but it doesn't work on nvidia yet!
On 8 Aug 2003, Eric W. Biederman wrote:
> But beyond that having etherboot separate has proved very valuable.
agree. In general, having "THE PAYLOAD" separate is a good deal. I would
not want to link, e.g., 9load into linuxbios, and I can't even build those
two on the same system.
My doubts c
Adam Agnew wrote:
No one really wants LinuxBIOS to support legacy BIOS services. However,
the need for them keeps creeping in (I believe Ron plans to add int15 to
have better support for some vga roms).
True, and too bad if any int's are added, I agree with Linus' original
comment that "we don't
> If I stick with this requirement that the VGA roms get supported by an
> external ELF piece, I have to do this:
>
> linuxbios -> external ELF bit that does VGA ROMs -> some other bit that
> loads linux from flash -> linux
>
I tend to agree with Sone that much of these functions should be seper
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