Okay, so let's start at the beginning. I started at Apple on July 17th,
1980, and I just left there a few months ago. I was there for 17 years. This
memo was written on July 18, 1980, so one thing I discovered when I left the
big Xerox Corporation and went to this little Apple startup, was that you
http://www.computerhistory.org/events/lectures/appleint_10281997/appleint_xs
cript.shtml
Origins of the Apple Human Interface
Larry Tesler
Chris Espinosa
5:30 PM, Tuesday, Oct. 28, 1997
Computer Museum History Center
Building 126
Moffett Field
Mountain View, CA 94035
This is a verbatim
Q: Would you like to comment on the fact that both Lisa and the Xerox
product [inaudible] ?
LARRY TESLER: Yeah. Like the Xerox Star? And the Lisa -- the idea was, in
both groups, was that people would only use a few applications. It's kind of
true, most people only do use a few applications. But
Q: [Inaudible]
LARRY TESLER: The question is, the user testing we showed for the Lisa had
to do with novice users, and the question was whether we tested for how
people acculturated over time. Well, the system, remember, from the very
first page of the user interface guidelines Bill wrote was targ
I remember very, very, very clearly that one of the massive controversies
around the development for the Macintosh, circa 1982-1983, was developers
would come up to us and say, "You know, if you make the user interface
consistent, and if you put all that software in ROM that makes it -- you
know,
I'm going to read -- Bruce tends to philosophize a lot in this, so it's not
going to be as useful to put up slides, but I'm going to read to you some of
his experiences from the -- here we go. From user testing: "Our testing
method is as follows. We set up a room with five to six computer systems.
Now, here's the big change. The Star had come out a year earlier than this,
and we were all told by management and ourselves, "Don't pay any attention
to that. We've got a product to ship." But in everybody's heart they kind of
felt like "You know, most of the Lisa's easier to use than the Star, bu
All right. Now it's still 1981, I should mention that the Xerox Star was
announced at NCC or something -- National Computer Conference, I think in
June of '81. Some Lisa people flew out there, got a look at it. Bill
Atkinson went, I believe, and Steve Jobs went, or maybe he sent Bill and
didn't go
But, we started. This motivated those of us who decided we had to do this
the right way to actually run more user tests. Because we thought maybe we
could overwhelm them with facts, and that will overcome this reliance on
votes of committees. So, Chris Doerr, Wallace Judd -- I think Wallace maybe
We had active folders, so we had to have passive folders; the folder that
wasn't active was passive. Now look at the bottom. Who has ever seen Mac
OS8? And when you drag a window to the bottom of the screen it just kind of
pops, and becomes just a tab, and then you can click it and it will slide
o
Those of you who know the Xerox Star know that the Xerox Star had that
feature. Those of us who were from Xerox were under a confidentiality
agreement, that we weren't allowed to tell the other Apple people about the
Star. And so, as you go through this, you'll sometimes find that things seem
like
Now, we talked about testing. We said that the design's already based on
studies of user reactions to various models; as you saw, we did three or
four hours of testing. [Laughter] And we're going to do more testing, and
avoid any glaring design flaws. I was happy that that was put in, because
that
And then it said, "The software is integrated through a powerful and simple
user interface." And it doesn't say it here, but John Couch, who was in
charge of the Lisa project, did a sort of Kennedy
we're-going-to-send-a-man-to-the-moon-and-bring-him-back thing; he said "All
I want is, I want to be
For a great discussion of the development of the Lisa computer's user
interface see the following web site which has a transcript of a
presentation by one of the Lisa's creators, Larry Tesler.
Origins of the Apple Human Interface
Larry Tesler
Chris Espinosa
Oct. 28,
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